English /
CMS20060917MeetingLog
ira 17 19:03:13 ryan who's here for the meeting? ira 17 19:03:30 Zapata how about selecting a moderator and forming an agenda ira 17 19:03:34 ryan toya said she would be right back ira 17 19:04:18 ryan well, for an agenda it can be: 1) organizational topics, 2) reportback on cms research, 3) planning for next round of cms research ira 17 19:04:21 ryan :D ira 17 19:04:30 Zapata 0) Introduction ira 17 19:04:46 Zapata 2) will be a bit short presumably without sarava ira 17 19:05:25 * humble (humble@localhost) gehitu da #cms ira 17 19:05:37 Zapata as part of 1) I'd like to add a text I prepared clarifying some of the issues raised during last meeting and last week ira 17 19:05:46 Zapata shall we start, people? ira 17 19:05:47 txopi i would add one more point: priorization of the features ira 17 19:05:53 toya pronto ira 17 19:05:54 toya uff ira 17 19:05:57 PseudoPunk let's start. ira 17 19:06:02 txopi let's go ira 17 19:06:20 * ekes nods ira 17 19:06:20 txopi who is going to be the moderator? ira 17 19:06:42 toya i could do it ira 17 19:06:53 Zapata that would be great! ira 17 19:07:01 * boston has quit (Client Quit) ira 17 19:07:01 txopi perfect, we can start ira 17 19:07:08 * boston (boston@xxx.xxx) gehitu da #cms ira 17 19:07:39 toya so is alright ira 17 19:07:44 toya can i do it>? ira 17 19:07:49 Zapata you can... ira 17 19:07:51 Zapata let's go ira 17 19:07:59 Zapata let's not make it another 4.5 hour long meeting ira 17 19:08:17 txopi :D ira 17 19:08:19 PseudoPunk longer or shorter ? :p ira 17 19:08:20 * joaop (taken@localhost) gehitu da #cms ira 17 19:08:20 toya yah cuz i have to do indymedia brasilia radio show in 3 hours ira 17 19:08:21 toya ;) ira 17 19:08:26 * joaop (taken@localhost) has left #cms ira 17 19:08:30 * joaop (taken@localhost) gehitu da #cms ira 17 19:08:36 * Devin (Devin@xxx.xxx) gehitu da #cms ira 17 19:08:52 toya so we do introdctions first or ppl dont think that is a need to? ira 17 19:09:10 alex i don't really think that's needed. we did that last week and many people already know themselves ira 17 19:09:17 alex unless there is someone veto-ing this ira 17 19:09:32 toya anyone? ira 17 19:09:43 * ekes wasn't here last week, but think people know me ira 17 19:09:50 Zapata I don't need it... but perhaps there are new people... ira 17 19:09:51 Clopy I missed the last meeting, so I can introduce myself if needed ira 17 19:10:02 qwerty me too ira 17 19:10:12 txopi jonhattan is new. i think an intro roud is good ira 17 19:10:23 alex well then just go ahead and do it ira 17 19:10:24 toya alright so lets do it ira 17 19:10:35 toya i call ppl ira 17 19:10:37 toya and they do it ira 17 19:10:40 toya bertagaz: ira 17 19:10:52 toya bertagaz: u there? ira 17 19:10:59 * alex is from imc-germany, admin and server admin. we use mir, i did some mir-documentation. ira 17 19:11:15 alex (i think everyone just doing it now doesn't hurt, we don't need an order methinks ira 17 19:11:31 * jonhattan has been around indymedia for a long time. It's my first time uin this discussion so I'll be in listen mode. btw I'm from the canary islands, using dada and planning to move to drupal ira 17 19:11:33 * mat from CMI Buenos Aires, Indymedia Argentina. Server admin and other tech on indymedia and linefeed ira 17 19:11:35 Zapata I'm max aka zapata from the mir coders and indymedia.nl. <end> ira 17 19:11:40 toya toya from imc brasil ira 17 19:11:49 boston Rob, Boston IMC, I like screensavers of puppies and long walks on the beach. I'm helping research Drupal for this project. ira 17 19:12:07 txopi i'm basque imc collaborator. we use mir. i'm quite techy but with you guys it's difficult to say that :-) ira 17 19:12:08 ryan ryan -> sf-active/sf-imc ira 17 19:12:09 * ekes is from imc-uk (mir), imc-york (drupal), admin and minor server admin ira 17 19:12:23 PseudoPunk I'm bart, somewhere in belgium and sf-active coder ira 17 19:12:53 humble scott from vancouver - imc experience active -> sf-active -> dada -> drupal .... (gotta take the dog for a walk, brb) ira 17 19:12:55 * joaop from imc brazil ira 17 19:12:57 rhatto i'm rhatto, brasil.indy admin ira 17 19:13:26 yossarian yossarian, imc-uk, unsuccessful mir coder ira 17 19:13:37 Zapata ow come on! ira 17 19:13:39 yossarian :) ira 17 19:13:40 * toya invites ppl to just introduce themselves ira 17 19:13:42 Zapata you're just starting ira 17 19:13:51 * qwerty and Clopy have been members of Athens indymedia for 3 years untill last year's split of the collective. We've developed TikiMedia [tikimedia.org], an indymedia codebase base on TikiWiki, but we stopped maintaining it. Now we're working on a plone extension for Indymedia sites ira 17 19:13:56 alex (when do we want to fight about which list to use?) ira 17 19:14:02 Devin \me is in Chapel Hill, NC, USA ira 17 19:14:02 Devin have been closed involved in IMC Richmond and hung out with Tampa bay folks; ira 17 19:14:02 Devin mostly interested in contributing tech/learning tech/helping as tech ira 17 19:14:02 Devin \me own own business as web applications programmer, like to contribute ira 17 19:14:02 Devin put together test install of Bricolage based on request from last week - ira 17 19:14:04 Devin working on getting a report of that online now (as wiki was down last I checked) ira 17 19:14:05 * diogo (diogo@localhost) gehitu da #cms ira 17 19:14:10 A-Kaser I'm francois, Belgium, I have a hosting system and I have make the www2 mirror of UK IMC ira 17 19:14:11 toya diogo: se apresenta ira 17 19:14:31 diogo Hello , Im Diogo from Indymedia Brazil-Sao Paulo and guardachuva.org ira 17 19:14:59 toya ;) ira 17 19:15:00 * gdm is from imc-uk and global tech/process/features stuff - more of a sysadmin than a programmer ira 17 19:15:20 gdm maybe even more of a networker than actually doing much ;-) ira 17 19:15:35 toya anyone else? ira 17 19:15:40 toya anyone else? ira 17 19:15:40 * vitor is from imc-brasil -> some experience in drupa, plone ira 17 19:15:41 * Alster (alster@localhost) gehitu da #cms ira 17 19:15:57 alex Alster: introduction. quick! ira 17 19:15:59 toya Alster: introduction time ira 17 19:16:12 yossarian pressure! ira 17 19:16:18 toya hehe ira 17 19:16:21 * ionnek ionnek from imc uk, lurking here, not a techie. ira 17 19:16:43 ionnek ... if thats ok with you ira 17 19:16:50 Alster again? well, it's here: http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Main/AlsteR ira 17 19:17:07 toya hehe ira 17 19:17:15 toya ionnek: yes it is :) ira 17 19:17:45 toya alright i would say if ppl havent done it yet..to just do it in the rest of the meeting in the more apropriated moments ira 17 19:17:48 toya :) ira 17 19:18:08 alex yeah, let's push agenda ira 17 19:18:16 * humble orain humble-afk bezala ezaguna ira 17 19:18:20 toya i would say we start it with zapatas ira 17 19:18:28 toya since he want to present something ira 17 19:18:36 Zapata right... ira 17 19:18:36 toya then we continue ith the agenda ira 17 19:18:57 Zapata well... ira 17 19:19:05 Zapata ok ira 17 19:19:21 Zapata the aftermath of last week's meeting was a bit tumultuous ira 17 19:19:46 Zapata and I fear some misconceptions exist about the nature of this project... ira 17 19:19:52 Zapata for this I have prepared some clarification ira 17 19:20:07 Zapata I'd like everyone to read this and then to discuss the points I have made for a bit ira 17 19:20:32 Zapata http://dev11.mir.dnsalias.net/clari.html ira 17 19:20:48 Zapata let's take a couple of minutes to read this ira 17 19:21:27 mat ...long... ira 17 19:21:40 toya alright ira 17 19:22:10 Zapata mat: it has a lot of whitespace ;-) ira 17 19:22:21 ryan heheh mat ira 17 19:22:28 toya so lets wait for ppl to read it and then if anyone has questions just said it, we will call the names by the orders ppls raises their hand ..and when ppl are done with the question just say it ira 17 19:23:57 * txopi has a bit off-topic question ira 17 19:23:59 * boston raises ira 17 19:24:20 <toya> txopi: go ira 17 19:24:24 toya then boston ira 17 19:25:01 * alex raises ira 17 19:25:05 txopi i would like to know witch is dada's situation. becasue we are searching a replacement for mir + active-sf... and dada? ira 17 19:25:26 * Zapata raises in response to txopi ira 17 19:25:43 toya ok ira 17 19:25:57 toya Zapata: answer it and then boston and alex ira 17 19:26:09 Zapata so, the status of dada is an interesting question ira 17 19:26:22 Zapata I have heard rumours that the sole developer of dada doesn't answer any emails anymore ira 17 19:26:25 Zapata but I'm not sure... ira 17 19:26:44 Zapata perhaps somebody is willing to investigate this out before next meeting? ira 17 19:26:46 Zapata <end> ira 17 19:26:51 toya ok boston ira 17 19:26:55 * boud arrived late - i'm from imc poland, local torun collective, starting to learn ruby (object-oriented language written someone from japan) ira 17 19:27:41 boston First, thanks for taking the time to do this. Not sure what people had the most issue with myself but whatever the reason glad to address it ahead of time. ira 17 19:27:45 boston Question is, Zapata (and all, perhaps), how much do you think the ability to migrate the data itself should be a part of this very initial consultation? I hear it on all the drupal-dev list all the time, the request for migration scripts. Or is that too much investigation for the first rounds? ira 17 19:27:46 boston end ira 17 19:27:48 * zule (zule@xxx.xxx) gehitu da #cms ira 17 19:28:01 * Zapata would like to respond to boston's question ira 17 19:28:54 toya Zapata: go and then is alex ira 17 19:28:57 Zapata I would assume we will not have a big problem writing migration scripts to the cms we'd choose. ira 17 19:29:20 Zapata given that, I would suggest we take this into account in a next phase, for instance when we have a shorter list of candidates ira 17 19:29:21 Zapata <end> ira 17 19:29:27 alex as jeff put it so well, "at the risk of mortal danger" i want to bring up a key decision again. was it actually consensus at techmeet to not start from scratch, but use an existing cms? i have the impression that outside of techmeet and Zapata really pushing this, it is not yet agreed on by everybody, so we should clarify that. ira 17 19:29:51 * alex done ira 17 19:30:19 ryan i can answer ira 17 19:30:21 * Zapata raises in response :-) ira 17 19:30:37 toya ok ira 17 19:30:45 toya ryan answeers this time alright zapata? ira 17 19:30:52 toya just to change a little :P ira 17 19:31:03 alex just go ahead and if zap wants to add he can.. ira 17 19:31:20 ryan i think the reason it keeps coming up is because one of the requirements we talked about was a bigger developer base ira 17 19:31:28 ryan so not necessarily an existing cms ira 17 19:32:00 ryan so, also discussed were adopting a framework ira 17 19:32:06 * txopi suggest to talk about the mailing lists issue after finishing with Zapatas text ira 17 19:32:06 * jonhattan raises on dada situation topic ira 17 19:32:10 ryan like a web framework that could be extended into something indymedia could use ira 17 19:32:37 ryan so, i dont think there is a set decision about new/scratch cms/framework etc ira 17 19:32:38 * ekes raises ira 17 19:33:01 ryan but a requirement that was decided on is expanding the developer base (for example, by adopting a cms project which has an existing base) ira 17 19:33:05 ryan end ira 17 19:33:07 * Zapata raises ira 17 19:33:08 <toya> ok, txopi that will be included tothe agenda, jonhattan u next ira 17 19:33:16 toya then ekes then Zapata ira 17 19:33:17 * Zapata raises to add something to the response to alex ira 17 19:33:36 toya hmm ok ira 17 19:33:54 toya Zapata: do it and after u is jonhattan and then ekes ira 17 19:33:57 Zapata I'd like to add that I think using an existing cms has more chance of succeeding ira 17 19:34:07 Zapata new projects often do not finish ira 17 19:34:20 Zapata but ofcourse we may not find a suitable existing cms ira 17 19:34:25 Zapata <end> ira 17 19:34:34 toya jonhattan: u now ira 17 19:34:40 jonhattan I confirm the only dada developer does not respond mails <end> :) ira 17 19:34:51 toya ekes: u ira 17 19:35:02 ekes If the base line is to create a mir sf-active clone from existing cms then we probably don't need to talk to the users - much (although finding out gipes would help in deciding which is ira 17 19:35:06 ekes more appropriate. ira 17 19:35:07 * Zapata raises ira 17 19:35:09 ekes If there is the chance it is to do more than mir and sf-active now, and using a framework would give that scope (and some other cms') then involving people constructively will ira 17 19:35:31 ekes will make it possible to find out what cms' there are there, and what people actually use. ira 17 19:35:42 * Zapata raises in response to jonhattan and in resposne to ekes ;-) ira 17 19:35:43 ekes <end> ira 17 19:36:09 toya ok Zapata answer both then ira 17 19:36:37 Zapata I would like to know whether jonhattan can tell anything about plans by imcs now using dada... is there a plan to migrate for instance? ira 17 19:36:42 Zapata and on ekes' points ira 17 19:36:48 Zapata I think we should start focusing on a replacement ira 17 19:37:06 Zapata but, we should keep in mind that IMCs will want new features and take that into account ira 17 19:37:14 Zapata that's why there are the two lists of features/requirements ira 17 19:37:34 Zapata I think the involvement of general users will become more important once there's a short list etc ira 17 19:37:36 Zapata <end> ira 17 19:37:40 * toya would like to know if everyone understood the points zapata explained on his clarifications..related with the what we want and what we wish lists...and if anyone else has more questions ira 17 19:37:52 * jonhattan hand raised by zapata ira 17 19:37:57 toya jonhattan: go ira 17 19:38:06 jonhattan The dada list is dead ira 17 19:38:28 jonhattan I'vent hear anything about migration plans but a little in imc-drupal-dev ira 17 19:38:35 * aneleh (aneleh@localhost) gehitu da #cms ira 17 19:38:42 jonhattan <end/> ira 17 19:38:58 toya ok so anyone else? ira 17 19:39:14 * boud has question for clarification about zapata's statement ira 17 19:39:20 toya go boud ira 17 19:39:43 boud This is a request for clarification from zapata: i don't understand how we can overcome the problem of "the overworked developers of mir and sf-active" if some of us treat things like open participation on a public mailing list and people getting to know each other as "non-issues". i also don't understand how zapata can respond to the WhoWeHave page by suggesting that he may delete the page and stating "what the fuck is the purpose of that". ira 17 19:39:49 boud On 12 September, Zapata wrote: ira 17 19:39:51 boud 20:55 <@pietro> im wondering if i should add myself to WhoWeHave ira 17 19:39:54 boud 20:56 <@Zapata> I'm wondering if I should delete that page ira 17 19:39:56 boud 20:56 <@Zapata> wtf is the purpose of that ira 17 19:39:59 boud end ira 17 19:40:14 * Zapata raises in response ;-) ira 17 19:40:38 Devin oiy ira 17 19:40:46 * humble-afk orain humble bezala ezaguna ira 17 19:40:55 toya ok first i want to ask ppl to not pust anything here to personal ;) and keep the focus on what we are building here ira 17 19:41:02 toya Zapata: go ira 17 19:41:51 Zapata on the list issue: I would like to move that to after the discussion of my clarification. ira 17 19:42:06 Zapata on the issue of the whowehave page: ira 17 19:42:14 Zapata I apologize for hte language I used ira 17 19:42:23 boud /me ok :) ira 17 19:42:35 toya alright cool :) ira 17 19:42:37 Zapata but I still find the page a bit patronizing ira 17 19:42:49 Zapata especially the "have" part... makes me feel like the slave... ira 17 19:43:07 Zapata anyway, I also consider this a minor issue... my reaction mostly had to do with the frustration I felt at that point ira 17 19:43:11 Zapata <end> ira 17 19:43:16 * boud raises ira 17 19:43:19 toya ;) ira 17 19:43:23 toya ok boud ira 17 19:44:02 boud well, i agree with that criticism - something like WhoWeAre would be better - thanks for the explanation, i agree that this bit is explained now :) ira 17 19:44:09 boud end ira 17 19:44:15 toya nice ira 17 19:44:26 toya alright first i would like to ask if everyone here know that are 2 lists? ira 17 19:44:31 toya imc-cms@lists.indymedia.org ira 17 19:44:42 toya and cms@techmeet.org ira 17 19:44:56 toya some might be in one and some in another and some in none ira 17 19:45:19 toya during the past week we have discussing bout this and we all decided that we should pick one list for hte project ira 17 19:45:54 toya the diferencies here arent just hte domain ira 17 19:45:59 toya but also the lists configurations ira 17 19:46:19 toya so i am not sure how to move this process ira 17 19:46:31 toya cuz i am not sure what we want for the lists configurations ira 17 19:46:33 toya ;) ira 17 19:46:48 * Alster notes there's also cms@lists.indymedia.org which is pending for removal ira 17 19:46:55 toya ahh ira 17 19:46:58 toya yah right ira 17 19:47:09 * ryan can add ira 17 19:47:11 toya i guess we can discard that to not make more mess ira 17 19:47:19 toya <-proposes ira 17 19:47:33 toya ryan: go ira 17 19:47:39 * boud five parameters are listed in http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-cms/2006-September/0912-ng.html ira 17 19:47:47 * boud well, sort-of-parameters ira 17 19:48:20 * toya ask for ppl to look on that link and think of them as what we could use for list configuration points ira 17 19:48:40 ryan for the record, i just set up the list last week because thats what we talked about ira 17 19:49:06 ryan the configuration options can be whatever ira 17 19:49:41 ryan i dont think i gave it much thought when i put up the list ira 17 19:50:05 ryan anyway, i just think someone should propose a configuration and we go with it here ira 17 19:50:23 toya so maybe first we should decide over the configuration and then the domain..cuz configuration can be changed in any of the lists servers ira 17 19:50:24 ryan hopefully there wont be much disagreement ira 17 19:50:24 ryan end ira 17 19:50:37 toya anyone ants to propose it? ira 17 19:50:42 toya wants ira 17 19:50:54 toya ------------------- cms at techmeet imc-cms at l.i.org ira 17 19:50:54 toya * public archives: NO YES ira 17 19:50:54 toya * users can see full subscriber list: NO YES ira 17 19:50:54 toya * anonymous IPs: ??? YES ira 17 19:50:54 toya * other listwork ??? YES indymedia hacks: ira 17 19:50:56 toya * listed on lists.i.org NO YES ira 17 19:50:59 toya ------------------------------------------------------------------- ira 17 19:51:00 * boud raises correction to error in http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-cms/2006-September/0912-ng.html ira 17 19:51:04 toya those are the ponits bouds listed ira 17 19:51:15 * txopi raises his hand ira 17 19:51:19 toya boud: ok ira 17 19:51:19 * gdm raises ira 17 19:51:38 boud should be: users can see full subscriber list: YES YES ira 17 19:51:47 <toya> txopi: u after it and then gdm ira 17 19:51:51 txopi for me imc-cms list&server configuration is right ira 17 19:52:02 boud except that people need to ask mailman for their password, get their password, and then they can look up the users list ira 17 19:52:03 txopi especially the first one ira 17 19:52:17 txopi for me anonymous IP is not a problem ira 17 19:52:17 boud i'm just talking about present parameters ira 17 19:52:19 boud end ira 17 19:52:21 txopi end ira 17 19:52:43 toya gdm ira 17 19:52:57 gdm should have public archive, should be available (i.e. at least linked from l.i.o), users visible but in non-spam format is advantage. ira 17 19:53:18 gdm other listwork hacks is probably good as welll, but i don't know what they all are ira 17 19:53:28 gdm should definitely be no recording of ips ira 17 19:53:34 gdm <end> ira 17 19:54:32 <toya> ok so there is gdm s proposal - which seems to have txopi consensus on it ira 17 19:54:43 * txopi is has ira 17 19:54:50 * gdm raises to make proposal if no one else wants to comment ira 17 19:54:58 toya do it gdm ira 17 19:55:57 gdm ok. i propose to use the list on lists.indy - but to have the list admins from the techmeet list also be admins if they want - i.e. Zapata and ryan (i think it is). ira 17 19:56:48 * Zapata already is ira 17 19:57:01 toya ok ira 17 19:57:18 toya any has anything to add, ask etc related to gdm proposal? ira 17 19:57:34 * txopi doesn't understand the proposal :-( ira 17 19:57:48 * Devin just needs url to subscribe and is happy ira 17 19:57:49 toya to just keep the indymedia list ira 17 19:58:01 * gdm raises ira 17 19:58:06 toya gdm: go ira 17 19:58:48 gdm i also want to make sure that everyone recognises we are appreciative of the effort to make the cms list as well by ryan, and this mainly seems to have been a miscommunication somewhere. so thank you ryan :-) ira 17 19:59:06 gdm <end> ira 17 19:59:32 * Zapata wonders whether txopi and everyone else understands the proposal now ira 17 19:59:33 ryan hehe :) ira 17 19:59:52 toya well i wonder if the silence is an agreement ira 17 19:59:57 * txopi wants to talk ira 17 20:00:05 <toya> txopi: go ira 17 20:00:30 txopi so we are going to use imc-cms.i.o? ok for me ira 17 20:00:45 * boud moderator could ask: "Does anyone have any concerns about this proposal?" and give another 60 seconds deadline for anyone to object or ask for more time ira 17 20:01:00 txopi end ira 17 20:01:15 toya <-lag ira 17 20:01:20 toya "Does anyone have any concerns about this proposal?" ira 17 20:01:45 toya ok i would say if anyone has any concern ira 17 20:01:55 toya if anyone isnt against it ira 17 20:02:04 toya to put up on the topic the link to ira 17 20:02:18 toya where ppl can subscribe to the list and we includ it on the summary as well ira 17 20:02:35 toya 60 seconds for object ira 17 20:02:43 toya or ask questions etc ira 17 20:03:33 toya ok so gdm do u have the link to the list subscribing page? ira 17 20:04:03 toya next item ira 17 20:04:05 toya would be ira 17 20:04:06 toya 2. reports on the cms review process so far ira 17 20:04:08 toya ? ira 17 20:04:12 * Zapata raises on the agenda ira 17 20:04:17 toya Zapata: go ira 17 20:04:30 * Alster thinks it's https://lists.indymedia.org/imc-cms ira 17 20:04:31 Zapata I wonder whether there are any more concerns related to process issues ira 17 20:04:40 Zapata if not we can go on ira 17 20:04:42 Zapata <end> ira 17 20:04:50 * gdm http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/imc-cms ira 17 20:04:58 toya thanks ira 17 20:05:01 * boud both urls are correct ;) ira 17 20:05:01 * ekes raises ira 17 20:05:07 toya ekes: go ira 17 20:05:57 ekes just saying am happy with process if people are clear it is immediate replacement (and are telling people this in their collectives) and will be asking questions (something like I e-mailed) in the future ira 17 20:06:01 ekes end ira 17 20:06:34 * yossarian notes that if people are going to raise, and make a long point, they could probably type it out in a separate text editor window before they raise, to save time., if possible ira 17 20:06:44 yossarian (obviously sometimes it's not) ira 17 20:06:47 * gdm raises ira 17 20:06:54 toya ok if ppl are all alright with it we should move on to the next topic ira 17 20:06:59 toya gdm: go ira 17 20:07:05 toya yossarian: thanks for the suggestion ira 17 20:07:10 gdm sorry - dont understand what ekes means by "immediate replacement"? /end ira 17 20:07:14 * vitor_ (vitor@localhost) gehitu da #cms ira 17 20:07:32 toya ekes: ? ira 17 20:07:32 * boud too doesn't quite understand :( ira 17 20:07:40 * vitor has quit (Killed (hybserv.indymedia.org (Nickname Enforcement))) ira 17 20:07:46 ekes not looking longer term. just a like for like replacement - end ira 17 20:07:55 * Zapata notes that ekes means list replacement ira 17 20:08:06 gdm ahh - ok, thought you meant cms! ira 17 20:08:10 * vitor_ orain vitor bezala ezaguna ira 17 20:08:25 ekes no cms ira 17 20:08:33 * Zapata is puzzled as well now ;-) ira 17 20:08:48 * boud thinks "no cms" means "list, not cms" - ekes ? ira 17 20:09:00 ekes starts typing... ira 17 20:09:37 ekes That techs are telling their collectives that they are looking at making a like for like replacement of their cms mir/active/dada ira 17 20:09:47 ekes and that this will look and operate simlarly ira 17 20:09:55 * Zapata raises on ekes point ira 17 20:10:06 ekes and that soon when some alternatives are there there will be questions asked ira 17 20:10:19 ekes like those about the alternatives ira 17 20:10:21 ekes - end - ira 17 20:10:36 toya Zapata: go ira 17 20:11:09 Zapata perhaps it's better to do this at a later stage in the project ira 17 20:11:24 Zapata like, suppose we won't find a cms, then the solution may be different ira 17 20:11:40 Zapata naturally, we'll depend on the willingness of imc's to switch to any solution we make ira 17 20:11:51 Zapata and for this I would say we should have all the existing features ira 17 20:12:10 Zapata but even if we can't achieve all existing features, we'll still have to realize the current situation isn't sustainable ira 17 20:12:24 Zapata and we'll thus have to change it ira 17 20:12:26 Zapata <end> ira 17 20:12:32 toya ok i see 2 major things for now since we already moved frorm the list topic.. ;) 1 - is the cms reports ira 17 20:12:53 toya 2 - is more like a process thing..a list of the things we should think of to do this project ira 17 20:13:31 toya cuz from both we can have a base to move on ira 17 20:14:15 * ekes nods ira 17 20:14:22 toya i would propose we do in here is to report back from the cms's, ira 17 20:14:37 toya see what we can do for the next meeting ira 17 20:15:03 toya then ira 17 20:15:14 * Zapata notes his lag is terribly ira 17 20:15:28 toya <-mine too ira 17 20:16:08 toya we could just point out a list of things to do ira 17 20:16:14 * ryan can talk about sfa + plone reportback ira 17 20:16:17 toya like ekes was saying tetc ira 17 20:16:58 toya does everyone agress with it? we move to the cms reporst back and then we make a list for other things we need to do as well and figure out how we move from it ira 17 20:17:02 toya for the next meeting ira 17 20:17:07 toya ? ira 17 20:17:12 * Zapata fine :-) ira 17 20:17:18 * boud boud can talk about samizdat (angdraug is here, but lurking) ira 17 20:17:19 * ekes agrees ira 17 20:17:21 * ryan agrees ira 17 20:17:38 * PseudoPunk agrees too ira 17 20:17:53 * txopi agrees ira 17 20:17:57 Alster /me 2 ira 17 20:18:25 toya ok so i would say ryan and then boud ira 17 20:18:27 toya ;) ira 17 20:18:32 toya for the reports ira 17 20:18:57 ryan ok so first, this site is worth checking out for us -> http://www.opensourcecms.com/ ira 17 20:19:01 * Devin can do bricolage ira 17 20:19:18 ryan its only php/mysql cms'es but they keep a bunch of demo site's operating so you can check each one out ira 17 20:19:44 ryan so, i just have some initial updates about the cms's i'm looking at ira 17 20:20:00 ryan i havent gotten as far as to fill out the complete cms report on sarava ira 17 20:20:13 ryan update with sf-active is -> ira 17 20:20:38 ryan to note that this one can give us a chance to evaluate how much of a web framework we are looking for ira 17 20:21:02 ryan whereas something like drupal would allow us to extend an existing application framework with modules, ira 17 20:21:14 ryan sf-active represents a project which would extend a *web* framework ira 17 20:21:20 ryan in this case, its PEAR ira 17 20:21:45 ryan anyway, sf-active developers have been talking about tagging a release soon ira 17 20:22:06 ryan talking about a timeframe of like 10-14 days, i think ira 17 20:22:34 * toya would like to point out for the ppl who werent in the past meeting that if they want to also test/check some cms or even some of the ones ppl are reporting here to say they want to do it so, after the reports are done ira 17 20:22:51 ryan then i can present to this group a survey of what PEAR offers and how hard it would be to extend this for an indymedia site ira 17 20:22:54 ryan .... ira 17 20:22:57 ryan ok ira 17 20:23:08 ryan re: plone, i set it up on a box in my house but i can move it to a box with an external ip ira 17 20:23:20 ryan at the last meeting, pietro commented about plone being resource-intensive ira 17 20:23:37 ryan and i think this cant be understated ira 17 20:23:49 ryan most stuff about plone is clear that it is mostly a good way to do an intranet ira 17 20:24:02 ryan but consistently underperforms in high traffic situations ira 17 20:24:14 ryan which may be enough for us to disregard it right away ira 17 20:24:24 ryan but i'll have the CMS reports done in this coming week ira 17 20:24:34 ryan and also, i started to evaluate mambo so i'd like to add that to my list ira 17 20:24:35 ryan end ira 17 20:24:45 toya ok ira 17 20:24:51 toya boud: u ira 17 20:25:31 boud WhatWeHave and WhatWeWant: ira 17 20:25:31 boud http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/samizdat-devel/2006-09/msg00005.html ira 17 20:25:31 boud get started on ruby (oo language like C++/java): ira 17 20:25:31 boud http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/samizdat-devel/2006-09/msg00007.html ira 17 20:25:31 boud ruby 1.6 http://rubycentral.com/book/ ira 17 20:25:33 boud ruby 1.8 update http://whytheluckystiff.net/articles/rubyOneEightOh.html ira 17 20:26:37 boud samizdat was created as a response to a prevous list of WhatWeHave/WhatWeWant type discussion among indymedia etc people ira 17 20:27:24 boud i don't know if people need some time to look through these in order to discuss... ira 17 20:27:46 * qwerty raises about plone ira 17 20:27:48 Devin uses rails or built from ground up in ruby? ira 17 20:27:48 * Zapata proposes to read them before the next meeting and discuss them then ira 17 20:28:26 angdraug Devin: no rails, Nitro/Og in plans ira 17 20:28:59 toya Zapata: reads what? ira 17 20:29:14 angdraug Rails is not friendly to multiple site per one code deployment... ira 17 20:29:30 toya qwerty: ok just wait for boud to be done ira 17 20:30:01 toya boud: ? ira 17 20:30:17 Zapata the links boud pasted ira 17 20:30:27 * gus (guss@localhost) gehitu da #cms ira 17 20:30:32 toya ok ira 17 20:30:35 gus hello ira 17 20:30:39 boud well, my experience as someone who has not written in oo languages before is that it seems relatively easy to hack the code and learn the language, so doing systematic, well-designed stuff should also be easy ira 17 20:30:40 toya boud: u done? ira 17 20:30:44 toya ahh ok ira 17 20:30:45 toya :) ira 17 20:30:54 boud end - but maybe angdraug wants to add something? ira 17 20:30:55 boud end ira 17 20:31:14 toya alright ira 17 20:31:18 toya before moving to qwerty questions ira 17 20:31:22 * boud oo = object-oriented ira 17 20:31:24 qwerty just to note that plone does need a modern CPU at least 2GBs of RAM for production sites, but scales well for high traffic. this is certainly a disadvantage but it has many other technical advantages and shouldn't be dismissed just for that reason IMO ira 17 20:31:26 toya angdraug: do u have anything to add ira 17 20:31:45 qwerty end ira 17 20:31:48 * toya wants to talk bout plone ira 17 20:31:51 angdraug no, I think the first link boud posted gives a good overview ira 17 20:31:58 angdraug end ira 17 20:32:04 toya ok so it is me ira 17 20:32:05 toya ! ira 17 20:32:19 toya this thing with the traffic depends a lot on how u set it up ira 17 20:32:26 * kya (kya@localhost) gehitu da #cms ira 17 20:32:29 toya u can have somethign infront of hte zope doing cache ira 17 20:32:44 toya this resolve this part of t he problem ira 17 20:32:49 * boston would also like to add about plone ira 17 20:32:58 toya done ira 17 20:33:04 toya boston: u ira 17 20:33:22 * ryan will add something ira 17 20:34:02 boston Briefly, I use it at work and we dealt with millions in Katrina donations without having the site go down. I would like to see ryan's traffic numbers. I believe using the Five and CacheFu products would work for high traffic, though there are very valid concerns about system resources. ira 17 20:34:02 boston end ira 17 20:34:23 toya ryan: u ira 17 20:34:46 ryan stuff about plone noted, i'll continue to do all the research for it ira 17 20:34:47 ryan end ira 17 20:34:49 toya then is Devin ' s reports ira 17 20:34:53 * qwerty has also set up high traffic sites with plone. The 4th ESF site [athens.fse-esf.org] is one example ira 17 20:35:12 Devin Wiki appears to be down, so have copied and added some new info at: ira 17 20:35:12 Devin http://24.172.120.164:8080/2006/09/17/bricolage.html ira 17 20:35:12 Devin From my summary/analysis there: ira 17 20:35:12 Devin Disclaimer: this is the first time I've used Bricolage, and have really just had time to dip by toes in, so I reserve the right to be completely wrong about everything here and advise that I am surely wrong about at least some things. ira 17 20:35:12 Devin According to the documentation Bricolage was created to manage the ira 17 20:35:13 Devin content work flow for print newspapers, and has expanded to web and ira 17 20:35:15 Devin RSS/XML. But the way in which the content creation/edit/management is ira 17 20:35:17 Devin seperated from the published and publicly available content seems to be ira 17 20:35:19 Devin a big point, with some advantages and what I perceive to be fatal ira 17 20:35:21 Devin disadvantages. ira 17 20:35:23 Devin Having the content creation management in one place and then having it ira 17 20:35:25 Devin "pushed" to a second server where it is formated and made available to ira 17 20:35:27 Devin the public has advantages in easy replication/redundancy, quick load ira 17 20:35:29 Devin time of content which does not have to do database lookups. ira 17 20:35:31 Devin This sort of separation does not seem to be a good fit for our uses, ira 17 20:35:33 Devin though. It seems like the old paradigm of "I publish, you read" as ira 17 20:35:35 Devin opposed to user participation. Having the published content on a ira 17 20:35:37 Devin different server and in a system not directly connected to the database ira 17 20:35:39 Devin seems like it would create real barriers to setting up a system when ira 17 20:35:41 Devin users can easily comment on articles from each page, rate articles, have ira 17 20:35:43 Devin that kind of interactivity. Again, I haven't really tried to set this up ira 17 20:35:45 Devin so there may be solutions to it, but my feeling is that we would have to ira 17 20:35:47 Devin create this and it would end up being a hack which by-passed most of the ira 17 20:35:49 Devin functionality of Bricolage work-flows. ira 17 20:35:51 Devin have pasted report; available for questions. ira 17 20:36:01 * Zapata raises ;-) ira 17 20:36:49 toya Devin: u done? ira 17 20:36:54 toya if so then is u zapata ira 17 20:37:01 Devin done posting, waiting to answer questions ira 17 20:37:06 toya ok ira 17 20:37:06 * Anna (anna@localhost) gehitu da #cms ira 17 20:37:08 toya Zapata: u ira 17 20:37:27 Zapata apparently devin doesn't like mir, since mir works according to this separation as well ;-) ira 17 20:37:43 * Devin doesn't know MIR (or Java) at all, sorry ira 17 20:38:07 Zapata anyway, I acknowledge the disadvantage this separation has ira 17 20:38:09 Zapata but... ira 17 20:38:13 Devin if it works well there, lessons learned there might be applied to Bricolage, not sure ira 17 20:38:34 Zapata in indymedia practice enough can still be achieved... take for instance imc uk... ira 17 20:39:14 Zapata perhaps it's a general idea for more people to look at a bunch of existing codebases in practice... ira 17 20:39:14 * zule has quit (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF)) ira 17 20:39:33 Devin imc uk is MIR? ira 17 20:39:39 yossarian yes ira 17 20:39:39 gdm yep ira 17 20:39:40 Zapata this does not require looking into coding, but only in looking how a site works... ira 17 20:39:43 Zapata <end> ira 17 20:40:05 * gdm raiss ira 17 20:40:23 gdm quick response to devin - 18:27 < Devin> http://24.172.120.164:8080/2006/09/17/bricolage.html ira 17 20:40:27 toya ok ira 17 20:40:38 gdm imc wiki is back but just waiting for dns to propogate ira 17 20:40:44 toya gdm: u then is boston ..will report bout drupal ira 17 20:40:46 gdm https://212.18.240.237 ira 17 20:40:50 gdm end ira 17 20:40:51 toya cool ira 17 20:40:53 toya :) ira 17 20:40:58 toya boston ira 17 20:41:05 boston The Drupal page on Sarava is http://techmeet.sarava.org/English/CMSSurveyReportDrupal ira 17 20:41:08 boston ira 17 20:41:08 boston OpenSourceCMS has a demo of the latest stable version at http://www.opensourcecms.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=132 ira 17 20:41:12 boston First round for Drupal was great. While there's still a little more homework to do I was able to get most of it done and ekes was kind enough to fill in a lot of the blanks, so please check it out when the techmeet site comes back online. ira 17 20:41:15 boston Naturally some of it is also up for discussion, but from initial glances it's really looking like we can say 'yes' in Drupal to all the features we have as well as the majority of features we'd like to have. In addition (and this still needs work) I believe there are several additional modules that would be of interest to IMCistas. ira 17 20:41:18 boston In short, I think feature-wise we're in really, really fantastic shape. The stuff that will require serious discussions will probably revolve around the backend: db optimizations and redundancy, multi-site support, traffic concerns, upkeep and data migration. ira 17 20:41:30 boston thanks ira 17 20:41:31 boston end ira 17 20:42:04 toya anymore reporst? ira 17 20:42:09 toya reports ira 17 20:42:17 Zapata I have started to look at zope ira 17 20:42:19 Zapata installed it ira 17 20:42:23 Zapata read documentation ira 17 20:42:36 Zapata (the content management framework that is) ira 17 20:42:40 * toya asks ppl to put up the cache link for google withthe drupal notes ira 17 20:43:01 <Zapata> as this is a framework, as txopi has said during the last meeting, we might need a slightly different process for it ira 17 20:43:15 Zapata haven't gotten around to filling in the report, as sarava.org was out today :-( ira 17 20:43:22 Zapata will get back to this in the net meeting ira 17 20:43:23 Zapata <end> ira 17 20:43:25 * Clopy want's to add something to Zapata ira 17 20:43:42 * Clopy and ask something first ira 17 20:43:43 * ekes notes drupal cache doesn't have my additions ira 17 20:43:48 * toya would like to remember zope goes together with plone and is all in python ira 17 20:43:48 * txopi wants to talk about the wordpress report ira 17 20:43:55 toya Clopy: u ira 17 20:44:25 toya ekes: u mind passing the link and we put the complete page on the list when the wiki is up again so ppl can see the rest ? ira 17 20:44:27 Clopy That is what i wanted to ask Zapata: When you're reffering to Zope, you mean Zope + Plone? ira 17 20:44:38 * PseudoPunk has installed joomla and didn't find more time to work with it yet ira 17 20:44:38 Zapata zope + the contement management framework ira 17 20:44:40 Zapata without zope ira 17 20:44:46 Zapata erm ira 17 20:44:48 Zapata without plone ira 17 20:44:55 Zapata i.e. a framework, not a full cms ira 17 20:45:12 Clopy ok. That's it then ira 17 20:45:19 toya ok ira 17 20:45:24 <toya> txopi: u ira 17 20:45:29 txopi i just want to say that i haven't finished it :-) i will finish during this week and then send a message to the mailing list ira 17 20:45:47 * Zapata but so far? you have a test site ,right? ira 17 20:45:48 txopi and also want to propose something more for the general survey ira 17 20:46:34 txopi i propose to use the score column to evaluate each of the features (as i have been doing in wordpress report) ira 17 20:46:48 * boston raises in response ira 17 20:46:54 ekes Durpal notes from google cache before my additions ira 17 20:47:05 ekes http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:-aVHyuwKdjUJ:techmeet.sarava.org/English/CMSSurveyReportDrupal+techmeet.sarava.org/English/CMSSurveyReportDrupal&hl=en&gl=uk&ct=clnk&cd=1&client=firefox-a ira 17 20:47:06 txopi we also have to prioritize the features ira 17 20:47:32 Devin yes, priorities are very important -- but may need wider input? ira 17 20:47:55 * Zapata raises ira 17 20:48:03 toya hi ira 17 20:48:09 toya oops ira 17 20:48:15 * txopi is writing ira 17 20:48:15 Zapata ;-) ira 17 20:48:26 * toya reminds she has more 30 min or so then i will have to go to the radio to do imc show ira 17 20:48:41 toya so plz someone else pic up the job ira 17 20:48:43 Zapata I'll take over if you want me to ira 17 20:48:53 toya ok thnks ira 17 20:48:59 * boud raises about social aspect of plone/zope developers' group ira 17 20:49:01 Zapata ok ira 17 20:49:01 txopi and then we could calculate and index who can give us an aproximate value with: feature1's priority * cms's score on feature1 + ...2 + ...3 ira 17 20:49:08 txopi end ira 17 20:49:10 toya sorry ppl but i will have to prepare things up will be afk for a little so it is with zapata ira 17 20:49:15 Zapata ok, boston? ira 17 20:49:40 * Zapata queue: /me then boud ira 17 20:49:41 boston I dig priorities but I personally left out the score column because, a) I didn't know if it was a priorities score or a 'can get the job done' score, and 2) i've seen 0-3 and 0-5 on different pages, so there's no set method now. ira 17 20:49:57 boston could we discuss that now and make some decisions if we're going to use it? ira 17 20:49:58 boston end ira 17 20:50:20 Zapata ok, priorities might be discussed more easily when we have a bunch of finished reports ira 17 20:50:44 * txopi wants to answer Devin's question ira 17 20:50:47 Zapata I would say, we're only just starting and need to build a feeling for the surveys ira 17 20:50:48 Zapata <end> ira 17 20:50:51 <Zapata> go, txopi ira 17 20:50:55 * Zapata queue: boud ira 17 20:51:20 txopi Devin, yes, we need wider input. score column is just for the final stage of the survey ira 17 20:51:22 txopi end ira 17 20:51:47 Zapata boud ira 17 20:51:49 * txopi wants to answer to boston ira 17 20:51:56 Zapata oh ira 17 20:52:00 Zapata please wait a moment boud ira 17 20:52:02 <Zapata> go ahead, txopi ira 17 20:52:04 * boud ok ira 17 20:52:11 * boud waits ira 17 20:52:24 txopi the reports that have used the score column have used 0-3 scale ira 17 20:52:37 txopi there is also 0-5 proposed, but not used yet ira 17 20:52:48 txopi anyway, of course we have to discuss this ira 17 20:53:03 txopi that's the reason i propose this issue now :-) ira 17 20:53:04 txopi end ira 17 20:53:18 * Zapata notes that it's a bit hard to discuss all this with an offline sarava ira 17 20:53:21 Zapata boud ira 17 20:53:22 Zapata go ahead ira 17 20:53:49 * mat have to go and say BYE ira 17 20:53:58 boud i'm a bit concerned about the social side of plone/zope - Zope calls ira 17 20:53:58 boud itself a corporation, and its customers are not the sort of groups ira 17 20:53:58 boud that we really would want to become too dependent on: ira 17 20:53:58 boud http://www.zope.com/customers/products_and_services_customers.html ira 17 20:53:58 boud Bank of America ira 17 20:54:00 boud US Navy ira 17 20:54:03 boud United States Navy / GE Jet Engines Workflow ira 17 20:54:05 boud http://www.zope.com/customers/case_studies/navy_ge.html ira 17 20:54:08 boud US Marines ira 17 20:54:10 boud http://www.zope.com/customers/case_studies/marine_corps_institute.html ira 17 20:54:13 boud http://www.zope.com/customers/case_studies/martest.html ira 17 20:54:15 boud http://www.zope.com/customers/training_customers.html ira 17 20:54:18 boud Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory ira 17 20:54:20 boud United States Department of Defense ira 17 20:54:31 boud this is not a veto of any sort, it's just one more parameter that IMHO we should probably be aware of ira 17 20:54:35 boud end ira 17 20:54:52 toya yah nasa uses zope/plone ira 17 20:55:15 * Zapata notes that people have made this point before... I guess it can be mentioned in the introduction of the surveys of said cmses ira 17 20:55:18 * boud PS: boud remembers the concern about the Ford Foundation grants from latin-american imcs... ira 17 20:55:18 toya so does the federal gov of brasil ira 17 20:55:44 Zapata but generally, open source can be used by anyone, including big bad corporations, that's the nature of open source ira 17 20:55:44 * qwerty wants to add something about zope/plone use cases ira 17 20:55:52 Zapata go ahead, qwerty ira 17 20:55:53 * toya would like to talk ira 17 20:56:01 * Zapata queue: toya ira 17 20:56:17 qwerty it's also being used by many NGO's, by the European Social Forum and the World Social Forum [wsf2007.org] ira 17 20:56:28 * boud raises ira 17 20:56:35 * Zapata queue: toya boud ira 17 20:56:52 qwerty and we are starting a indy media project in Greece that it will be based on plone ira 17 20:57:02 qwerty with additions for open publishing ira 17 20:57:23 qwerty we will have a prototype release very soon ira 17 20:57:24 qwerty end ira 17 20:57:32 Zapata toya, go ahead ira 17 20:57:35 * Zapata queue: boud ira 17 20:57:38 toya i dont see the zope/plone use for governments etc as the same thing as the ford fundation grants ....one is to accept money from an institution like ford fundation ..the other thing is to use a free software...which for the its license is free for anyone to use..even imc cms will be like this and it will be impossible for us to track ira 17 20:57:43 toya who is using it or not ira 17 20:57:51 toya if a governmet decides to use imc cms ira 17 20:57:56 toya if it is under gpl ira 17 20:58:02 toya we cant say no to it ira 17 20:58:11 toya so for me i dont compare both cases ira 17 20:58:13 toya end ira 17 20:58:20 Zapata boud: go ahead ira 17 20:58:57 boud i agree that it's not necessarily a reason to rule out plone/Zope. On ira 17 20:58:57 boud the other hand, Zope seems especially proud of its military/corporate ira 17 20:58:57 boud clients - it's not just that anybody can use the software. As for ira 17 20:58:57 boud NGO's, ESF and WSF, AFAIK it's only under a lot of pressure and ira 17 20:58:57 boud educational efforts that they have sort of understand the importance ira 17 20:58:59 boud of the political aspects of software. ira 17 20:59:38 boud Anyway, as long as this info is there, it will be used in the eventual decision-making. ira 17 20:59:43 boud end ira 17 20:59:49 * toya raises ira 17 20:59:52 Zapata go ahead, toya ira 17 21:00:01 * Devin google zope license, finds "Zope Public Licence" ZPL, not gpl, wonders what this is ira 17 21:00:16 toya i can talk bout it as well ira 17 21:00:26 toya it isZPL but i has the 4 liberties from gpl ira 17 21:00:30 * boud ZPL is GPL compatible AFAIK ira 17 21:00:36 toya yah ira 17 21:00:41 toya ZPL = GPL ira 17 21:00:54 toya again gpl means free for anyone to use ira 17 21:01:03 * kwadronaut raises and excuses for being late ira 17 21:01:12 * Zapata queue: kwadronaut ira 17 21:01:14 toya so it is hard to decide a sofwtware over who is using it or not ira 17 21:01:33 toya since it is under gpl or a simular license ira 17 21:01:41 toya done ira 17 21:01:47 Zapata kwadronaut ira 17 21:01:52 kwadronaut translation.i.o is also a zope-derivate. i prefer to have just a note in the survey on the license ira 17 21:02:05 * boud http://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html#GPLCompatibleLicenses ira 17 21:02:09 kwadronaut and we can discuss later i think, on those things <end> ira 17 21:02:21 * Zapata would agree with kwadronaut ira 17 21:02:46 Zapata ok, shall we finish the item about discussing reports and move on to the next agenda item? ira 17 21:03:15 * txopi raises his hand ira 17 21:03:15 * Clopy wants to ask a question about the overall process ira 17 21:03:23 <Zapata> txopi: go ahead ira 17 21:03:26 * Zapata queue: clopy ira 17 21:03:44 txopi i think we could speak a bit more about the report template ira 17 21:03:59 txopi are we going to use the 0-3 score, no score? ira 17 21:04:23 txopi i have realized that they are some little differences in the features list on the existing reports ira 17 21:05:21 * isaac (isaac@xxx.xxx) gehitu da #cms ira 17 21:05:22 txopi if we don't put clear the list, people is going to write very different things and we'll have to work more to homogeneize them ira 17 21:05:23 * Zapata proposes to move these points to next week when sarava.org is online again, as it's now very hard to talk without looking at the reports in question ira 17 21:05:23 txopi end ira 17 21:05:38 Zapata and I would like to add that the reports will be different ira 17 21:05:52 * gdm maybe would be better to move back to docs.indymedia.org now that is getting sorted too? ira 17 21:05:53 Zapata I think we can "synchronize" them in a later stage ira 17 21:06:11 Zapata we might consider moving to docs.indy yeah ira 17 21:06:17 Zapata clopy, go ahead ira 17 21:06:19 txopi ok, we can wait ira 17 21:06:26 Clopy about the pros and cons. How do we proceed. I mean, I can write a doc with the pros and cons of plone (since we are already developing an indymedia site based on it). Should I write such a paper? And do you think this paper should be relative to the WhatWeWant spec? Or just a "pros and cons" style? ira 17 21:06:47 * Zapata raises in resposne to clopy ira 17 21:07:36 Zapata done, clopy? ira 17 21:07:48 Clopy yes. end. sorry :) ira 17 21:07:53 Zapata ok ira 17 21:08:00 Zapata I would suggest you talk to the people assigned to plone ira 17 21:08:08 Zapata I think it's ryan ira 17 21:08:17 Zapata so he can use your experience in the report ira 17 21:08:24 Zapata <end> ira 17 21:08:25 ryan yeah, Clopy, lets chat -- i'm setting up a plone instance on blackcat ira 17 21:08:26 Clopy ok ira 17 21:08:33 Zapata so... ira 17 21:08:39 Zapata do people think we can move to the next agenda item now? ira 17 21:08:52 * txopi confirms that the person assigned to plone is ryan ira 17 21:09:18 * txopi agrees ira 17 21:09:22 boston yes ira 17 21:09:39 toya ok ira 17 21:09:53 Zapata can someone paste the item :-) I think it was selecting new cmses to review ira 17 21:10:07 toya yah ira 17 21:10:10 toya it was ira 17 21:10:11 Zapata ok ira 17 21:10:12 toya <-still around ira 17 21:10:12 Zapata so... ira 17 21:10:23 Zapata are there people that have spare time to review another cms? ira 17 21:10:42 Zapata and are there people with new cmses that might be worthy of a review? ira 17 21:11:22 kwadronaut i could do spip (not spipindy addon) for next sunday i think, but maybe others have even more experience on it? ira 17 21:11:36 Zapata sounds great ira 17 21:11:39 * init clould look at mephisto and radiant ruby-on-rails-CMSs ira 17 21:11:43 Zapata perhaps you can talk to the french guys ira 17 21:11:47 Zapata sounds great as well ira 17 21:12:02 Zapata anyone else? ira 17 21:12:08 PseudoPunk i'll do joomla as promised ira 17 21:12:12 Zapata great ira 17 21:12:35 Zapata when we have the wiki pages back and when we have really finished some of the reports, I'm sure we'll think of more to do ira 17 21:12:41 * ryan note -- no one else was doing mambo, right? ira 17 21:12:58 Zapata not afaik ira 17 21:13:21 * toya says that someone was going to do joomla ira 17 21:13:31 toya i suggest to jus tdo joomla if u are thinking of mambo ira 17 21:13:32 Zapata someone other than pseudopunk? ira 17 21:13:39 toya no PseudoPunk ira 17 21:13:43 isaac * who was looking at drupal ? ira 17 21:13:44 toya i forgot it was him ira 17 21:13:55 * boston was looking at Drupal ira 17 21:13:58 Zapata gosh, life is hard without wiki pages :-( ira 17 21:14:17 txopi http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:3HUBCOtRIY8J:techmeet.sarava.org/English/CMSSurveyList+CMS+site:techmeet.sarava.org&hl=eu&gl=es&ct=clnk&cd=7 ira 17 21:15:10 Zapata ok ira 17 21:15:12 Zapata so... ira 17 21:15:13 * boud : joomla = pseudopunk ira 17 21:15:41 Zapata shall we proceed to the next agenda item? ira 17 21:15:43 * yossarian will try eribium ruby-on-rails cms ira 17 21:15:49 Zapata great, yoss ira 17 21:15:53 Zapata so... ira 17 21:15:59 Zapata the next item is scheduling a next meeting, right? ira 17 21:16:34 * Alster needs to leave. thanks for the meeting planning + moderation! ira 17 21:16:47 * kwadronaut raises in response to the next item ira 17 21:16:58 Zapata go ahead, kwadro ira 17 21:17:02 * Alster has quit (Quit: :tiuQ) ira 17 21:17:17 kwadronaut i havent read all my mails yet, but received at least 2 direct mails from oceanian people ira 17 21:17:26 kwadronaut complaining about the time ira 17 21:17:41 kwadronaut one was getting even a bit dissapointed. ira 17 21:17:51 isaac I can confirm that - from Aotearoa - New Zealand ira 17 21:17:53 kwadronaut maybe we could shift times meeting from meeting? ira 17 21:18:01 kwadronaut <end> ira 17 21:18:05 Zapata ok ira 17 21:18:09 Zapata let me say some things on this ira 17 21:18:43 Zapata as mentioend over the mailing lists, I proposed to make the meeting later, but on saturday... since I can't make it any later on sundays ira 17 21:19:02 Zapata 21 pm utc on saturday or so ira 17 21:19:12 * kwadronaut still notes that he just relayed a message and that he has no clue about time himself. ira 17 21:19:18 isaac later is good for me - saturday is good also ira 17 21:19:18 Zapata erm 9 pm utc or 21 utc ira 17 21:19:43 Zapata I discussed this a bit with and_, one of the complainers ;-) and he said he didn't think there were any other oceanic people... ira 17 21:19:49 toya hmm ira 17 21:19:52 toya 6pm ira 17 21:19:54 Zapata but there's isaac here and there was somebody from nz subscribing to the cms@techmeet list ira 17 21:20:11 isaac there are more... ira 17 21:20:18 Zapata right ira 17 21:20:26 Zapata so we should accomodate the oceanic people ira 17 21:20:26 toya we will send the summary telling bout the list decision etc ira 17 21:20:31 toya sent to both lists ira 17 21:20:47 Zapata yeah, but when will we hold the next meeting :-) ira 17 21:20:53 txopi if we change to saturday afternoon i cant stay. i want to keep my little social quote of time! :-/ ira 17 21:20:55 * boud proposal seems to be: EastUS 15 EU 21, UTC+2 23 EastOz/Aotearoa 31/32 = 7/8 ira 17 21:21:06 toya hmm ira 17 21:21:18 * ionnek has quit (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF)) ira 17 21:21:24 toya i dont understand ira 17 21:21:45 Zapata 9 pm utc saturday = 2 pm east us if I'm correct ira 17 21:22:00 * boud proposal seems to be: EastUS 15:00 GMT 21:00, Europe (UTC+2) 23:00 EastOz/Aotearoa 31/32 = 7:00 am/8:00 am ira 17 21:22:35 kwadronaut adelaide, amsterdam santiago de chili saturday: http://tinyurl.com/gxp7n ira 17 21:22:59 toya ok ira 17 21:23:18 * boud kwadronaut - wrong url methinks ira 17 21:23:25 isaac + 1 - sounds good to me ira 17 21:24:22 * joaop has quit (Quit: leaving) ira 17 21:24:32 Zapata so... ira 17 21:24:37 Zapata 9 pm utc saturday... ira 17 21:24:50 toya ok ira 17 21:25:00 Zapata no objections? ira 17 21:25:03 ryan its ok for me ira 17 21:25:04 * boud correcting aoteroa: EastUS 15:00 GMT 21:00, Europe (UTC+2) 23:00 EastOz/Aotearoa 31/33 = 7:00 am/9:00 am ira 17 21:25:15 Zapata boud: east us = 14:00 ira 17 21:26:04 * boud correcting EastUS: EastUS 17:00 GMT 21:00, Europe (UTC+2) 23:00 EastOz/Aotearoa 31/33 = 7:00 am/9:00 am ira 17 21:26:15 Zapata boud: 14:00 not 17:00 ira 17 21:26:27 Zapata erm ira 17 21:26:28 Zapata sorry ira 17 21:26:30 * boud e.g. http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/ seems that New York is UTC - 4 ira 17 21:26:31 Zapata west it's 14:00 ira 17 21:27:07 Zapata so ira 17 21:27:10 Zapata another thing ira 17 21:27:18 * boud a bit early on a sunday morning for oceanians ;) but we can't find a perfect time ira 17 21:27:32 Zapata jebba has offered the use of his vserver space for people that need a place to experiment with cmses ira 17 21:27:42 * txopi thinks that in basque country go for fiesta much more than in the rest of europe... ira 17 21:27:43 Zapata it'll be early/late for someone whatever time we choose ira 17 21:28:05 <Zapata> txopi: we don't party, we code :-p ira 17 21:28:35 txopi to code is a party! xDD ira 17 21:28:57 Zapata ok ira 17 21:29:03 Zapata so.... ira 17 21:29:07 Zapata I guess that's that then? ira 17 21:29:20 Zapata we'll see each other next saturday, 9 pm UTC ira 17 21:29:29 ryan nice ira 17 21:29:34 isaac did we get the mailing list thing sorted ? ira 17 21:29:38 * PseudoPunk won't be there ira 17 21:29:38 Zapata yeah ira 17 21:29:45 Zapata we'll use imc-cms@lists.indymedia.org ira 17 21:29:54 Zapata do we need to arrange anything for that? ira 17 21:29:57 isaac ok ira 17 21:30:04 Zapata send the people on the other list a message to that effect I guess ira 17 21:30:08 Zapata who will do that? ira 17 21:30:26 kwadronaut i suppose there are mods and admins already for imc-cms? ira 17 21:30:28 isaac can we copy messages from other list to imc-cms ? ira 17 21:30:37 Zapata I'm an admin on imc-cms ira 17 21:30:56 Zapata anyone willing to assist me, please let me know ;-) ira 17 21:31:08 ryan i will ira 17 21:31:12 Zapata great ira 17 21:32:44 * Devin wonders if anyone is really interested in Bricolage, if I should continue to learn/pursue it? ira 17 21:33:03 Zapata please continue ira 17 21:33:10 Zapata at least 3 people proposed it ira 17 21:33:12 Devin ok ira 17 21:33:21 * Zapata-k gaia honakora aldatu du: next CMS meeting september 23rd 2100 UTC in #cms | Please Read: http://techmeet.sarava.org/English/Notes | http://cats.revolt.org/cats-vii/indymedia/ | http://techmeet.sarava.org/English/CMSProposal ira 17 21:33:59 Zapata anyone volunteering for writing a meeting summary? ira 17 21:36:04 txopi i can publish the logs ira 17 21:36:16 Zapata great ira 17 21:42:44 alex saturday night? ugh ira 17 21:43:33 Zapata if saturday night isn't convenient for the europeans, we'll just rotate the meeting or so ira 17 21:43:42 alex colors? wtf. sorry, heh ira 17 21:44:21 * ekes may or may not be able to make the next meeting - depending on work (often working till 24:00 Sat) ira 17 21:44:34 ekes I will write notes on process to e-mail anyway ira 17 21:45:15 Zapata great ira 17 21:45:16 toya hehehe