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Second hour
Sep 30 16:00:20 ryan after boud, dannpy will reply to magduv
Sep 30 16:01:09 boud kwad said we already have it in "healthy community", but i think it would probably be possible to list a set of several different parameters (e.g. is it a corporation? does it boast about selling to the US army?) - i also agree with zapata that it's relatively more subjective,
Sep 30 16:01:42 boud but on the other hand it can be as objective as NPOV (neutral point of view) in wikipedia
Sep 30 16:02:00 boud so maybe rather it's qualitative rather than quantitative info
Sep 30 16:02:18 boud anyway, zapata is just suggesting so that can't hurt
Sep 30 16:02:31 boud </end>
Sep 30 16:02:36 ryan ok dannyp, then ryan
Sep 30 16:02:38 dannyp magduv: specifically with the case of dadaIMC, the strain it puts on database servers makes it a difficult choice for collectives to host long term. This is why sites like New York and DC have problems under high load despite having large amounts of computing power available to them. if the new CMS is easy to host and has reasonable technical requirements, then I imagine that collectives that currently host dadaIMC would be eager to encourage migration to the new I
Sep 30 16:02:58 dannyp which maybe suggests a problem with the approach as we have it now - to find features we like first, and then try to make it work
Sep 30 16:03:30 dannyp we need to be evaluating, from the beginning, is this sustainable in terms of technical resources (computing power, developers) - discussion of things like platforms and languages can't happen too soon IMO.
Sep 30 16:03:34 dannyp end
Sep 30 16:03:51 * Zapata raises in response to dannyp
Sep 30 16:04:17 ryan so, on a lot of these topics, i agree with zapata that they be pushed into the second phase of evaluation
Sep 30 16:04:24 ryan although people doing evaluations are of course free to report on them in advance
Sep 30 16:04:42 ryan if mambo is run by a lyndon larouche committee, let's find out in the first phase
Sep 30 16:05:24 ryan but in terms of migration and server hosting, a powerful CMS could dictate that we redesign our hosting configuration or how current server operators collaborate
Sep 30 16:05:51 ryan like zapata said, if the CMS is good enough, reconfigurating server setups or developing a challenging migration procedure could be worth it
Sep 30 16:06:20 ryan and, let's also not forget, that some of the issues being talked about by magduv and dannyp are already on the first-run list, i think
Sep 30 16:06:43 ryan ok- thats it for me, and i would propose for this topic... rest could be on the list since we still need to decide on a next meeting
Sep 30 16:06:48 ryan zapata, do you have something to add? you are on the stack
Sep 30 16:06:59 Zapata well
Sep 30 16:07:02 Zapata if I may add
Sep 30 16:07:15 Zapata that indeed the scalability and performance characteristics are on the list
Sep 30 16:07:38 Zapata <end>
Sep 30 16:07:51 ryan ok
Sep 30 16:08:01 ryan i think it makes sense to move to the final agenda item, which is setting up next meeting
Sep 30 16:08:07 ryan yeah? or is there more to discuss today?
Sep 30 16:08:44 kwadronaut i'd like to propose oscailt to to evaluate
Sep 30 16:08:52 ryan ah ok
Sep 30 16:09:03 ryan well -- you can put it on the wiki and assign it to yourself :)
Sep 30 16:09:05 kwadronaut i don't think i've got capacities (time) to do it myself
Sep 30 16:09:09 ryan oh
Sep 30 16:09:13 kwadronaut i already added it to the wiki
Sep 30 16:09:20 ryan could you approach an IMC that uses it?
Sep 30 16:09:28 ryan and try to find someone to evaluate it?
Sep 30 16:09:38 kwadronaut i'll write e-mail to collectives that use it, thanks for the idea
Sep 30 16:09:43 * ana , lurking from uk, thinks link to that wiki would be good for the log
Sep 30 16:09:45 kwadronaut <end>
Sep 30 16:10:07 Gb excused but with this speed and my English, I do not succeed to understand and not to take part
Sep 30 16:10:13 ryan http://techmeet.sarava.org/English/CMSSurveyList
Sep 30 16:10:31 ryan Gb -- :/
Sep 30 16:10:43 ryan could be we try to run multi-lingual meetings like once a month...
Sep 30 16:10:51 ryan english meetings the other weeks
Sep 30 16:11:06 Gb is my problem :)))
Sep 30 16:11:16 Gb sorry
Sep 30 16:11:19 Zapata is OUR problem!
Sep 30 16:11:25 ana what language is your first Gb ?
Sep 30 16:11:31 Gb it
Sep 30 16:11:39 * kwadronaut wouldnt mind giving a translating hand to french or dutch. but italian.... is not possible for me
Sep 30 16:11:50 ryan actually, i have been meaning to recruit blicero
Sep 30 16:11:55 ryan for this project
Sep 30 16:11:58 * ana could do spanish, italian not an option either
Sep 30 16:11:59 ryan i'll put that on my todo list
Sep 30 16:12:06 ryan he could translate to italian
Sep 30 16:12:14 ryan there is a big developer base in italy that we are losing by not outreaching to them
Sep 30 16:12:50 * toya back
Sep 30 16:12:51 * jebba notes autistici is doing lots of work....
Sep 30 16:12:51 ^anti-^ ryan, I'll traslate to italian
Sep 30 16:13:08 ana i'll put on my to do list to summarise previous #cms meetings and translate summary to spanish...
Sep 30 16:13:31 ryan ana: cool
Sep 30 16:13:44 kwadronaut great ^anti-^
Sep 30 16:13:44 Gb thank ^anti-^
Sep 30 16:14:06 ryan alright, so next meeting?
Sep 30 16:14:18 ryan oh wait wait
Sep 30 16:14:20 toya i will try to bring the brazukas
Sep 30 16:14:26 ryan can someone throw in the URL for meeting summaries on the wiki?
Sep 30 16:14:35 ryan i cant find it right now for some reason
Sep 30 16:14:42 ryan to direct translators to this page?
Sep 30 16:14:43 ana there is no summaries url
Sep 30 16:14:47 ryan !!!!
Sep 30 16:14:50 ryan we need one!!
Sep 30 16:14:50 ana because there are no summaries done yet...
Sep 30 16:14:53 ryan !!
Sep 30 16:14:59 ryan :O :O :O :O
Sep 30 16:15:02 ryan ok ok
Sep 30 16:15:06 ryan i'm gonna make one
Sep 30 16:15:08 * ana thinks
Sep 30 16:15:11 ryan i dont even have a wiki account yet :)
Sep 30 16:15:16 toya omg
Sep 30 16:15:19 ana me neither
Sep 30 16:15:19 ryan shhhhhh
Sep 30 16:15:31 ana i have for indymedia wiki not the new one
Sep 30 16:15:48 toya ppl can do it themselves
Sep 30 16:15:51 toya make the account
Sep 30 16:16:01 ryan we will make it!!!
Sep 30 16:16:02 ryan dont worry!!
Sep 30 16:16:09 ryan ok i'm gonna set up a summaries page
Sep 30 16:16:11 kwadronaut ana: http://techmeet.sarava.org/English/CMS20060930MeetingSummary is a summary url
Sep 30 16:16:13 ryan and then email it to you all
Sep 30 16:16:22 ryan (and i will link to the existing summary from the first mtg)
Sep 30 16:16:27 ryan ok
Sep 30 16:16:30 ryan next meeting?
Sep 30 16:16:30 ana ah ok thanks - i was told there were no summaries
Sep 30 16:17:22 ryan hmmm well if no one has ideas, i think i have a preference
Sep 30 16:17:28 Zapata tell us!
Sep 30 16:17:34 ryan well i'm not sure what it is yet
Sep 30 16:17:46 kwadronaut shall we shift times a bit?
Sep 30 16:17:48 dannyp that's deep.
Sep 30 16:17:48 ryan but next weekend is crasy for me
Sep 30 16:17:55 ryan shut up dannyp :D
Sep 30 16:18:05 toya lol
Sep 30 16:18:29 ryan hm
Sep 30 16:18:49 ryan i prefer sunday mornings
Sep 30 16:18:57 toya your morning?
Sep 30 16:19:01 ryan let me get out the old timeanddate.com meeting planner...
Sep 30 16:19:01 Zapata what time?
Sep 30 16:19:08 ryan single best invention ever created for indymedia
Sep 30 16:19:11 Zapata you're utc - 7
Sep 30 16:19:23 ryan http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meeting.html
Sep 30 16:19:25 ryan I KNOW I AM
Sep 30 16:19:32 toya what time
Sep 30 16:19:38 ryan i prefer 10AM sunday
Sep 30 16:19:45 ryan easy like sunday morning
Sep 30 16:19:55 Zapata fine for me...
Sep 30 16:20:06 dannyp 1000 GMT?
Sep 30 16:20:16 dannyp that's a bit early over here
Sep 30 16:20:22 ryan this is october 8
Sep 30 16:20:25 ryan no no
Sep 30 16:20:27 ryan 1000 gmt-7
Sep 30 16:20:29 toya i dont know my schedule for next sunday..i will be travelling but i think i could do it ..
Sep 30 16:20:30 Zapata 1700
Sep 30 16:20:33 Zapata 1700 utc
Sep 30 16:20:35 dannyp ah
Sep 30 16:21:00 Zapata 7 pm amsterdam, paris, berlin 6 pm london
Sep 30 16:21:07 kwadronaut cool for me, not cool for oceania ;-)
Sep 30 16:21:21 dannyp does saturday work?
Sep 30 16:21:24 kwadronaut altough because of elections, don't count on me
Sep 30 16:21:40 shensche er.. 5am... well, now it is 4.30am :)
Sep 30 16:21:41 toya i think is 14pm for brasil
Sep 30 16:21:42 Zapata saturday is hard for europeans that have a life
Sep 30 16:21:56 Zapata (which btw doesn't include me, but that's another story)
Sep 30 16:22:10 toya hehee
Sep 30 16:22:14 Zapata ;-)
Sep 30 16:22:16 toya nerd
Sep 30 16:22:16 toya :P
Sep 30 16:22:22 Zapata look who's talking :-p
Sep 30 16:22:44 dannyp my house serves and has lunch with a group of homeless people that live near a closed down shelter (thanks to the mayor) on sundays, so sunday is a bit hard for me - but I can make it work, if I must
Sep 30 16:22:47 kwadronaut shensche: so its better for you?
Sep 30 16:23:00 ryan well i'm skipping CHURCH to come to these sunday morning meetings
Sep 30 16:23:07 ryan you lot of unwashed heathens
Sep 30 16:23:20 ryan mmmm!! the church should have free wireless
Sep 30 16:23:21 ryan during mass
Sep 30 16:23:27 toya hehehehehe
Sep 30 16:23:28 toya lol
Sep 30 16:23:29 ryan i will suggest this
Sep 30 16:23:32 shensche nah, does not matter. do not count me in, i won't have much to add anyway :)
Sep 30 16:23:49 kwadronaut can we decide on a time before being dragged away by other stuff?
Sep 30 16:23:54 ryan its decided
Sep 30 16:23:55 Zapata we won't find a perfect time for everyone
Sep 30 16:23:55 ryan 1700 UTC
Sep 30 16:23:58 ryan objections?
Sep 30 16:23:59 ryan 1...
Sep 30 16:24:02 ryan 2...
Sep 30 16:24:05 toya lol
Sep 30 16:24:11 ryan 3!!!!
Sep 30 16:24:15 Zapata 4
Sep 30 16:24:16 Zapata 5
Sep 30 16:24:21 Zapata 5883695
Sep 30 16:24:23 Zapata 5883696
Sep 30 16:24:25 dannyp I assume casual discussion will continue here post-meeting
Sep 30 16:24:29 Zapata final!
Sep 30 16:24:34 ryan dannyp: yeah its casual time!!!!!
Sep 30 16:24:39 * ryan flips on the disco ball
Sep 30 16:24:42 * ryan puts on the mood music
Sep 30 16:24:49 toya ok
Sep 30 16:24:52 toya ppl
Sep 30 16:24:54 * Zapata gets into his casual outfit
Sep 30 16:25:31 Zapata 1700 UTC
Sep 30 16:25:36 toya i probably wont be able to do it
Sep 30 16:25:42 ryan !!!!!!!!
Sep 30 16:25:45 shensche sweet, c ya mates.
Sep 30 16:25:45 Zapata october 8th
Sep 30 16:25:46 ryan i *said* 1.. 2.. 3!
Sep 30 16:26:20 ryan toya - is there a time next sunday you could make it?
Sep 30 16:26:42 dannyp so I'm curious about user-level features in indymedias (accounts and the like)
Sep 30 16:26:43 toya hmm
Sep 30 16:26:48 toya if it is a little bit later
Sep 30 16:26:51 toya really
Sep 30 16:26:53 toya dont count with me
Sep 30 16:26:54 toya on sunday
Sep 30 16:26:59 Zapata a little bit later?
Sep 30 16:27:00 ryan oh oh
Sep 30 16:27:02 Zapata like how much?
Sep 30 16:27:04 ryan toya - saturday is better?
Sep 30 16:27:11 magduv bye all
Sep 30 16:27:19 ryan i am ok with saturday
Sep 30 16:27:22 toya nah next weekend is insane
Sep 30 16:27:28 dannyp and whether people feel like they can be implemented from a security (legal) perspective
Sep 30 16:27:48 * kwadronaut agrees with toya on next weekend being insane
Sep 30 16:27:53 ryan dannyp: i think we need to develop 1) a good internal analysis on that and 2) an easy way to convey it to users
Sep 30 16:27:57 ryan but we gotta have user accounts
Sep 30 16:28:14 Zapata so...
Sep 30 16:28:16 Zapata toya/ryan
Sep 30 16:28:21 Zapata the time of next meeting stands?
Sep 30 16:28:39 * Zapata has changed the topic to: next CMS meeting NOW in #cms | Please Read: http://techmeet.sarava.org/English/Notes | http://cats.revolt.org/cats-vii/indymedia/ | http://techmeet.sarava.org/English/CMSProposal
Sep 30 16:28:40 dannyp ryan: what's the desire for that? we must still allow anonymous usage and contributions, per the draft PoU
Sep 30 16:28:54 * Zapata has changed the topic to: next CMS meeting october 8th 1700 UTC in #cms | Please Read: http://techmeet.sarava.org/English/Notes | http://cats.revolt.org/cats-vii/indymedia/ | http://techmeet.sarava.org/English/CMSProposal
Sep 30 16:29:11 dannyp is it on trying to build a community?
Sep 30 16:29:27 ryan yes
Sep 30 16:29:32 toya hey it will be hard for me the whole weekend.thinking of it..so dont count with me :/
Sep 30 16:29:34 ryan and identity protection, for people who want it
Sep 30 16:29:49 ryan and to help improve quality of articles
Sep 30 16:29:59 ryan because you can have "trusted users"
Sep 30 16:30:04 ryan and personalized trusted users
Sep 30 16:30:04 boud dannyp - user accounts will be *optional*
Sep 30 16:30:21 ryan so users can trust each other and customize their newswires based on those priorities
Sep 30 16:32:50 ryan well
Sep 30 16:32:51 ryan that was fun
Sep 30 16:38:13 dannyp sorry, wandered away (to the bathroom)
Sep 30 16:39:52 dannyp so I'm really not certain how I feel about this, because I feel like there needs to be a way that anonymous articles don't just fall off the face of the earth, even if they're good
Sep 30 16:41:12 dannyp but perhaps I'm just playing devil's advocate here
Sep 30 16:42:31 dannyp also, I really loathe captchas
Sep 30 16:42:54 Zapata it's a matter of what you like more, captchas or link spammers
Sep 30 16:44:08 dannyp well captchas don't work, and the beginnings of the captcha-beating industry are already developing
Sep 30 16:44:24 dannyp granted, they may have offered some relief now, but at what cost?
Sep 30 16:46:43 dannyp if you can get good feedback on comments somehow, one could use bayesian analysis to automatically divert suspicious comments to a queue to be reviewed...
Sep 30 16:50:07 dannyp having more administration be inline would also make it easier for collectives to do the actual task, and closing stories to new comments at a certain age would reduce the number of potential places for spammers to target
Sep 30 16:52:30 dannyp these solutions will also make it easier to deal with right-wing trolls and the like, who will not be deterred by captchas
Sep 30 16:58:42 ryan listen, listen
Sep 30 16:58:44 ryan captchas work
Sep 30 16:58:52 ryan i work with criminal internet scumbags
Sep 30 16:58:58 ryan i've lived with criminal internet scumbags
Sep 30 16:59:00 ryan they hate captchas
Sep 30 16:59:06 ryan and it has effectively stopped the spam attack
Sep 30 16:59:57 dannyp they have also, in most cases, effectivelly stopped visually impaired users
