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13:42 < ryan> GOOD MORNING EVERYONE
13:42 < ryan> SO SAD, LAST MEETING OF TECHMEET 2007
13:45 < simon> hello
13:45 < ryan> hi simon
13:46 * simon is kind of passive since he's at the "techmeet denmark", I suppose we
can call it :) first succesful meeting in a good while here in denmark..
right now we're just in rebe|'s room discussing hangovers and coding.
13:46 < ryan> cool :) :)
13:46 < ryan> hey, can you guys do a video stream?
13:46 < ryan> we're going to do one from san francisco today
13:47 < simon> hmm
13:47 < simon> I don't think we have the equipment for live streaming
13:47 < simon> also we're on limited bandwidth
14:01 < simon> when does this meeting start?
14:01 < simon> our meeting is technically over now, people are just cooking food and
two of us are coding.
14:08 < simon> does someone have an agenda of what this last sunday is going to
involve?
14:08 < simon> as I understood, one subject was IMC CMS development
14:21 < simon> anyone alive at this point?
14:45 < ryan> oops sorru
14:45 < ryan> the meeting beginst at 1100 GMT-8
14:46 < ryan> i think people are gettin ready for tje meeting
14:47 < kwadronaut> simon: around 8 pm
14:48 < ryan> the main topics of this last meeting is: 1) introductions / change to
add agenda items, 2) IMC CMS project, 3) documentating techmeet 2007,
4) working groups - next steps, 5) techmeet 2008
14:51 < simon> ok
14:51 < simon> cool
15:04 < toya> oi
15:04 -!- nenolod [nenolod@irc.indymedia.org] has joined #techmeet
15:04 < toya> http://techmeet.org/txt/28Oct2007ConfSummary
15:04 < toya> summary from last sunday
15:15 < occam> IF ANYONE NEEDS THE TECHMEET BERLIN VIDEO, ASK ME FOR THE URL IN A
QUERY
16:24 < ryan> hiiiiii
16:24 < ryan> check this out ->
16:24 < ryan> http://www.techmeet.org/txt/CMS_Summary
16:24 < ryan> as a topic of discussion for today, folks
16:26 -!- pvh_ [pvh@687aab.3b92ba.222286.70a7d3] has joined #techmeet
16:29 < simon> wonderful, thanks
16:29 < ryan> hellloo
16:30 < pvh_> hello ryan, simon
16:30 < simon> hi pvh
16:30 < simon> which countries do you think are represented during this sunday's
techmeet?
16:32 < pvh_> i'm from south africa. next time, please also mention GMT on the times
for the meetings - then at least i can derive SAST ;)
16:34 < toya> hi
16:34 [Users #techmeet]
16:34 [ A-Kaser ] [ ekes ] [ guido ] [ mat ] [ osu ] [ subtle]
16:34 [ acracia ] [ epsas ] [ gus ] [ mtoups ] [ pepe ] [ toya ]
16:34 [ boud ] [ fierman] [ iconocla1t] [ nah ] [ pvh_ ] [ yan ]
16:34 [ briks ] [ foz ] [ iconoclast] [ nenolod] [ ryan ] [ Zapata]
16:34 [ dannyp ] [ gdm ] [ jaromil ] [ nikete ] [ simon ]
16:34 [ datamonkey] [ groente] [ kwadronaut] [ occam ] [ startx]
16:34 [ dannyp ] [ gdm ] [ jaromil ] [ nikete ] [ simon ]
16:34 [ datamonkey] [ groente] [ kwadronaut] [ occam ] [ startx]
16:34 -!- Irssi: #techmeet: Total of 34 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 34 normal]16:35 < ryan> pvh_: good point :)
16:35 < ryan> pvh_: we should do that
16:35 < ryan> pvh_: hey, i am gek!
16:35 < ryan> pvh_: i changed my nick
16:35 < pvh_> ah ok. keeping us all on our toes, i see ;)
16:36 < ryan> heheheheh. when i turned 30, i decided that nicks were no longer for me16:37 < pvh_> oy vey. you making me feel old
16:37 < simon> ryan, when I turned 15 I decided that :P
16:38 < simon> I'm thinking of getting into the habit simply to stay incognito, but
I can't think of anything to call myself that doesn't sound stupid in
the long run
16:39 < simon> hmmm
16:40 < pvh_> simon, just choose a "normal" name. but a different one
16:40 < simon> or the name of a libc function
16:40 < pvh_> so did i miss the meeting or has it not started or what?
16:40 < pvh_> lol. yes
16:40 < simon> not started yet
16:41 < guido> hi hi
16:41 -!- simon is now known as strtok_r
16:41 < occam> hello
16:41 -!- strtok_r is now known as simon
16:41 < simon> heh
16:41 -!- yan [yan@4f2848.abd5ba.e56fd7.2a78a2] has quit [Quit: Heute schon was
Anonymes gemacht?]
16:42 < simon> question: when was the last time someone suggested an intermediate
format for indymedia articles?
16:42 < pvh_> simon, intermediate format?? you mean like some structured text format?16:42 < simon> pvh_, yes
16:43 < simon> as in a collective export format for migrating between codebases or
for mirroring
16:43 < kwadronaut> pvh_: forget the xml-hype ;-)
16:43 < simon> we're not having an easy time exporting our old articles from oscailt316:43 < pvh_> never heard any such suggestions myself. but maybe i'm not listening
right
16:43 < simon> pvh_, maybe there never was one.
16:44 < pvh_> most "migration" i've heard have has been done on db-level
16:44 < simon> oscailt3 is a bit tricky there
16:44 < simon> since what it stores are sort of objects..
16:44 < ryan> hello hello
16:45 < pvh_> simon, then an api-level export would seem to make sense??
16:45 < simon> I can't remember if they're serialised php data, or if they're just
generalised beyond articles
16:45 < simon> pvh_, yup!
16:45 < kwadronaut> simon: http://techmeet.org/txt/CMSSurveyReportOscailt ;-)
16:46 < kwadronaut> so are we going to start in 15 minutes (aka known as 1 hour
later)
16:47 < pvh_> kwadronaut, marvelous. africa time ;)
16:47 < kwadronaut> +?
16:48 < pvh_> in south africa everything starts 1 hour late. its called "africa
time". we even joke that the revolution will start 1 hour later than
everywhere else here
16:48 < simon> hah
16:48 < simon> I heard about that
16:49 < simon> people are pretty relaxed about time
16:49 < simon> I heard it was more than an hour though :)
16:50 < pvh_> well, you can keep it down to 1 hour if you work really hard ;)
16:51 * pvh_ awaits the big SF-A announcement. "kind of like google's big
announcement tomorrow"
16:51 < simon> what is google's big announcement?
16:51 < pvh_> the gphone apparently
16:52 -!- g [g@09664d.ed5510.615e20.c78a5a] has joined #techmeet
16:53 < g> good afernoon
16:55 < ryan> hello
16:55 < ryan> google's big announcement was their opensocial api, right?
16:55 -!- elisa [elisa@2a3532.e3eb72.2a009a.730598] has joined #techmeet
16:55 < simon> google is gay?!
16:55 < simon> wait, that's george michael. I'm a bit late on the news.
16:56 -!- guest-en [guest-en@842092.846365.4e97e6.ecf932] has joined #techmeet
16:57 -!- guest-en [guest-en@842092.846365.4e97e6.ecf932] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC]
17:02 < ryan> so, i think we wait the obligatory 10-15 minutes for people to show up?17:02 < simon> yes, lettuce.
17:02 < toya> ok video stream from here is working
17:04 < simon> can we see?
17:05 < simon> our IMC meeting was over a few hours ago, and people have
disassembled. would've been fun, but people were having hangovers and
were not in the mood for any technical discussions, which was a bit
unlucky.
17:05 -!- clackty [clack@2d9871.891c85.1b43b0.1e5e00] has joined #techmeet
17:07 < simon> does kupu still compete with tinymce?
17:07 -!- drebs [drebs@2a3532.942a78.fe9440.068a2e] has joined #techmeet
17:08 -!- rhatto [berne@3dc69a.b02399.e1eef0.6b9fe2] has joined #techmeet
17:09 < ryan> rhatto!
17:09 < ryan> hey :)
17:10 < rhatto> hi :))
17:12 -!- HurricaneJoAnne [rkee@8e7da3.669cd3.d03d9a.15d665] has joined #techmeet
17:12 < ryan> currently testing SF techmeet stream
17:12 < ryan> is anyone else gonna stream?
17:13 < toya> ei
17:13 < toya> rhatto:
17:13 < toya> tenta ai o stream
17:13 < rhatto> tou sem caixas de som :/
17:13 < toya> eh video
17:14 < toya> video e audio /win 20
17:15 < kwadronaut> yeah hasciicam in win 20!
17:15 < guido> ascii cam, i want to see that
17:19 [Users #techmeet]
17:19 [ A-Kaser ] [ drebs ] [ gdm ] [ jaromil ] [ occam ] [ startx]
17:19 [ acracia ] [ ekes ] [ groente ] [ kwadronaut] [ osu ] [ subtle]
17:19 [ boud ] [ elisa ] [ guido ] [ mat ] [ pepe ] [ toya ]
17:19 [ briks ] [ epsas ] [ gus ] [ mtoups ] [ pvh_ ] [ Zapata]
17:19 [ clackty ] [ fierman] [ HurricaneJoAnne] [ nah ] [ rhatto]
17:19 [ dannyp ] [ foz ] [ iconocla1t ] [ nenolod ] [ ryan ]
17:19 [ datamonkey] [ g ] [ iconoclast ] [ nikete ] [ simon ]
17:19 -!- Irssi: #techmeet: Total of 39 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 39 normal]17:19 < occam> hehe
17:20 < simon> when can we expect to start?
17:20 < ryan> well
17:21 < ryan> i think any minute. should we just say 11:30? i think they are
finishing setting up the stream.
17:21 < ryan> maybe we could start with introductions now
17:21 < ryan> everybody wanna post intros?
17:21 < elisa> toya cade o link pro streaming?
17:21 < kwadronaut> kwadronaut: imc-nl, popelin, sfa, several other tech things.
17:21 < ryan> i'm ryan. i work with san francisco indymedia, sfccp, linefeed,
sf-active, imc-cms, a number of other projects. i live in san
francisco, i'm from northeast ohio
17:23 < elisa> elisa imc- brasil, sarava, birosca...
17:23 < HurricaneJoAnne> I'm JoAnne, from Madison, Wisconsin. I mostly just cause
trouble these days, since my local IMC isn't active. It
used to keep me off the streets, but alas, not anymore.
17:23 < occam> mplayer -zoom -rtsp-stream-over-tcp
rtsp://nettlau.indymedia.org:8000/sf.sdp -cache 128
17:23 < occam> mplayer -zoom -rtsp-stream-over-tcp
rtsp://nettlau.indymedia.org:8000/sf.sdp -cache 128
17:23 < guido> im guido, and i have a rabbit
17:23 < occam> mplayer -zoom -rtsp-stream-over-tcp
rtsp://nettlau.indymedia.org:8000/sf.sdp -cache 128
17:23 < occam> mplayer -zoom -rtsp-stream-over-tcp
rtsp://nettlau.indymedia.org:8000/sf.sdp -cache 128
17:24 < occam> or open rtsp://nettlau.indymedia.org:8000/sf.sdp in quicktime
17:24 * occam occam, global tech, imc fkn germany, linefeed
17:24 < pvh_> pvh, imc-south africa, the main techie in our imc, more involved in
off-internet imc work than on-internet stuff though
17:25 * Zapata mir coder from nl
17:25 * rhatto from sao paulo and a bit away from this meeting :/
17:27 < occam> we use gobby again?
17:28 < occam> Zapata: can you start the gobby server?
17:28 < Zapata> erm
17:28 < Zapata> isn't it on?
17:28 < Zapata> the topic is about techmeet nl still
17:28 < Zapata> which was 2 weeks ago
17:29 < ryan> ok well
17:29 < toya> ok i am getting coffee
17:29 < toya> hold on
17:30 < ryan> the stream is up
17:30 < ryan> let's do this thang
17:30 < occam> Zapata: works now here
17:31 < toya> ok
17:31 < toya> argh
17:31 < toya> cold coffeee
17:31 * occam started a new doc on gobby
17:31 < ryan> can i change the topic?
17:32 -!- ryan changed the topic of #techmeet to: 11/04 - FINAL TECHMEET MEETING OF
2007!
17:32 < toya> ALRIGHT!
17:33 < toya> toya: from brasil imc - birosca - linefeed - sfccp
17:33 < ryan> so, agenda?
17:34 * iconoclast from netherlands, cook and activist
17:34 < clackty> /me from western canadia
17:34 < occam> telephone!
17:34 < simon> hmm
17:34 < simon> I had problems getting gobby to work :/
17:35 < ryan> clackty: which imc, out of curiousity?
17:35 -!- guest-en [pjirc@31356a.15aa3e.a85214.c9637a] has joined #techmeet
17:35 * clackty from western canadia, do work with drupal these days.. formerly of
vancouver imc (inactive)
17:35 < ryan> clackty: cool
17:35 -!- guest-en is now known as RoB
17:35 < ryan> rob!!!!!!
17:35 < ryan> you made it!!!!!
17:35 < ryan> thanks man
17:35 < ryan> HOUSTON HAS LANDED
17:36 < ryan> rob we are streaming from san francisco
17:36 < RoB> Howdy, roB of Houston (tx) IMC
17:36 < ryan> -> rtsp://nettlau.indymedia.org:8000/sf.sdp
17:36 * clackty i'll be afk for most of the meeting but i look forward to reading
the logs and contributing to wiki/imc-cms
17:36 < ryan> clackty: do you do programming or sysadmin stuff?
17:36 -!- occam changed the topic of #techmeet to: 11/04 - FINAL TECHMEET MEETING OF
2007! | rtsp://nettlau.indymedia.org:8000/sf.sdp | gobby:
ufo.xs4all.nl:12345
17:37 < ryan> hey maybe i'm way ignorant
17:37 < ryan> but what is gobby?
17:37 -!- scout [Something@fee8b2.936b30.f524c8.13a0dc] has joined #techmeet
17:37 < ryan> ohhhhhh i see
17:37 < ryan> er wait
17:37 < clackty> ryan: web dev - i'm no sys admin
17:37 < ryan> no i dont
17:37 < occam> text editor you can use with many persons at the same time
17:37 -!- scout [Something@fee8b2.936b30.f524c8.13a0dc] has left #techmeet [Leaving]
17:38 < ryan> ok so
17:38 < ryan> here is the CMS Summary -> http://www.techmeet.org/txt/CMS_Summary
17:38 -!- kev [kev@48dff2.bbf3e8.2a2319.105f01] has joined #techmeet
17:38 < simon> gobby can't install here. can someone inform me of how much I'll miss
of the interactivity?
17:39 < ryan> my agenda proposal is: 1) Introductions & Agenda Suggestions, 2) CMS
Discussion, 3) Documenting Techmeet 2007, 4) Techmeet 2008
17:39 < occam> simon: it just the topic list, just helps to write down notes
17:39 < simon> ok
17:39 < ryan> oh you download gobby?
17:40 < simon> ryan, I've been trying for hours in total, my windows is probably
just fucked.
17:40 < simon> a friend is connecting instead and we'll use his screen
17:40 -!- drebs [drebs@2a3532.942a78.fe9440.068a2e] has left #techmeet []
17:41 < ryan> i cant get it to work either
17:41 < ryan> would it be bad to switch to writewith?
17:41 < ryan> what is on gobby?
17:41 < occam> the agenda and notes /urls
17:42 < ryan> erm
17:42 < ryan> doesnt work here :(
17:42 < pvh_> here neither. iconv error
17:43 < occam> well, kwadronaut and me are on it, so we can take notes, so we can
make a summary later
17:43 < occam> it will be on the wiki after it
17:43 < pvh_> ok, fine.
17:43 < kwadronaut> pvh_: ryan open it from the commanline: gobby
--join=ufo.xs4all.nl:1234
17:43 -!- scout [scout@fee8b2.936b30.f4407e.ef36b5] has joined #techmeet
17:43 -!- chrisc [chrisc@a08927.154c2d.4e03f5.3f5f60] has joined #techmeet
17:43 < ryan> kwadronaut: i cant install it
17:43 < simon> hi scout! ^_^
17:43 < scout> :)
17:43 < ryan> scout!
17:44 < ryan> scout: give an intro
17:44 < simon> scout's pc speaker beeps loudly when you highlight him
17:44 < ryan> occam: what do you think about throwing it on writewith?
17:44 < ryan> occam: then everyone could see it
17:44 < scout> ryan, you mean a intro of myself ?
17:45 < ryan> scout: yah, we're doing that right now
17:45 < scout> ahh k )
17:45 -!- RoB [pjirc@31356a.15aa3e.a85214.c9637a] has quit [Client exited]
17:45 < scout> i'm from the danish indymedia
17:45 < ryan> we are running about 45 minutes behind schedule :)
17:45 < scout> :) i can see that
17:45 < Zapata> an hour and 45 minutes for the people in central europe
17:46 < ryan> Zapata: how is that possible?
17:46 < Zapata> daylight savings time issue
17:46 < Zapata> I had organized my day for a meeting that started 1 hour and 45
minutes ago
17:46 < Zapata> but anyway
17:46 < Zapata> let's go
17:46 < Zapata> never mind
17:46 * chrisc does uk imc stuff, it's 19:46 GMT
17:46 < ryan> yeah, lets go
17:46 < ryan> my agenda proposal is: 1) Introductions & Agenda Suggestions, 2) CMS
Discussion, 3) Documenting Techmeet 2007, 4) Techmeet 2008
17:47 < toya> so we are done with introductions?
17:47 -!- RoB [pjirc@31356a.15aa3e.a85214.c9637a] has joined #techmeet
17:47 < ryan> i think so..
17:47 < ryan> but does anyone have anything to add to the agenda?
17:47 < toya> nope
17:48 * gus cmi-brasil.
17:48 < toya> hmm
17:49 < ryan> ok well
17:49 < ryan> here is my suggestion
17:49 < ryan> i can go through the CMS Summary on the stream
17:50 < ryan> as a way to begin the discussion?
17:50 < occam> yeah
17:50 < occam> would be cool
17:50 < ryan> do we know how many people are on it?
17:50 < occam> but make sure that record to disk button is on ;)
17:50 < ryan> heheheh
17:51 < ryan> and maybe someone can document here what i'm saying
17:51 < ryan> not word for word
17:51 < ryan> its already all written down
17:51 < RoB> I've got the quicktime video feed, I'm not hearing anything
17:51 < ryan> RoB: nothing to hear right now
17:51 * occam 4 ppl on the stream
17:51 < simon> http://simon.vil.bz/ <- scout and me
17:51 < ryan> rob, did you hear that?
17:52 < kev> hi, i got in a bit late and haven�t introduced myself nor i�m kev :)
17:52 < RoB> yep
17:52 < ryan> cool
17:52 < kev> should we be connected to a stream?
17:52 < ryan> ok
17:52 < ryan> kev: yes
17:52 < ryan> ok, in 2 minutes!
17:52 < ryan> IN TWO MINUTES: I WILL REVIEW THE CMS SUMMARY ON THE STREAM
17:53 < scout> where can we hear it ?
17:53 < scout> url ?
17:53 -!- datamonkey [chatzilla@a2ba3e.db0ea5.401967.9ec89d] has quit [Quit:
ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.9/2007102514]]
17:53 < gus> mplayer -zoom -rtsp-stream-over-tcp
rtsp://nettlau.indymedia.org:8000/sf.sdp -cache 128
17:53 < occam> rtsp://nettlau.indymedia.org:8000/sf.sdp
17:53 < kev> cool gus
17:54 < kev> i�m connected
17:54 < toya> oi kev !
17:54 < kev> oi toya!
17:54 < occam> toya, ryan
17:54 < occam> make sure its recoding!
17:54 < toya> ryan is taking over
17:54 < occam> recording
17:54 < toya> i will type what he talks
17:54 < ryan> occam it says record to disk
17:54 < ryan> it is checked
17:54 < toya> so ppl arent seeing it
17:54 < ryan> i dunno where the file is though
17:54 < toya> knows ssup
17:54 < occam> very good
17:54 < occam> in the Movies folder
17:55 < gus> say something
17:55 < ryan> yep its doing
17:55 < occam> cool
17:55 < RoB> word
17:55 < scout> works fine here
17:56 < toya> ok
17:56 < toya> cms discussion starts!
17:56 < toya> it begans last year in sp/brasil
17:56 < toya> and continue last year
17:56 < ryan> http://www.techmeet.org/txt/CMS_Summary
17:56 < toya> now he will post the url for the summary
17:56 < toya> that it was done
17:56 < toya> people open it
17:57 < toya> and check what is in there
17:57 < toya> so we can discuss
17:57 < toya> >ryan lighting up a cigarrete<
17:57 < toya> :P
17:57 < toya> first part introduction
17:57 * Zapata not a joint?
17:57 < simon> we should have more tech meetings like these.
17:58 < toya> the idea was that after techmeeet last year we would take the
requirements documents that we did in saopaulo - the list we maded of
what we want for indymedia
17:58 * occam 9 ppl on the stream
17:58 < toya> techmeet was over then we continue on imc-cms list and on irc
17:59 < toya> you can see the list of all the cmss we listed (based on the
requirements we had)
17:59 < toya> so we decided to evaluate
17:59 < toya> all the cms's that seems to fit into it
17:59 < toya> if you look at the second section
17:59 < toya> 'indymedia evaluations'
18:00 < toya> you can see the survey results of the diferent
18:00 < toya> evaluations
18:00 < toya> that wanst completly as it could be
18:00 < toya> but it did give us a good survey of what is out there
18:00 < toya> and gave us an idea of what is avaliabl
18:00 < toya> moviing on to the next section
18:01 < toya> 'imc cmss interviews'
18:01 < toya> it was proposed that insted of doing the research we should just send
the developers of those cms's
18:01 < toya> the questions we had for our evaluation
18:01 < toya> from that we could also have an idea of the cms's
18:01 < toya> who had an active community
18:01 < toya> or not
18:02 < toya> this was useful for that reason too
18:02 < toya> you can see on this section the interview template
18:02 < toya> and all the responses
18:02 < toya> which was sent to the imc-cms list
18:02 < toya> but in this section there is a list to be easy to look at
18:02 < toya> is not necessary to go throught all this
18:02 < toya> but it seems like plone is the big winner for development team
responses
18:03 < toya> the next section is
18:03 < toya> existed iniciatives
18:03 < Zapata> existing initiatives
18:03 < toya> :)
18:03 < Zapata> ;-)
18:03 < toya> first drupal -> is one of imcs sites already running drupal
18:04 < toya> they have a emailing list, they are putting together packages
18:04 < toya> to make it easy to take drupal and make indymedia sites using it
18:04 < toya> is an ongoing project but is impressive because they developed a work
existed on the other imc cms's but using drupal
18:04 < toya> the next one is dispach system
18:05 < toya> nothing much on this but it was listed as well for people to check it
out
18:05 < toya> next one is indymedia uk
18:05 < toya> they have done substantion amount of programming for their site
18:05 * chrisc we have?!
18:05 < toya> unfortunally they arent around but they are interested in this project
18:05 < Zapata> !!!
18:05 < Zapata> I'm surprised too
18:05 < Zapata> chrisc is here
18:05 < Zapata> I'm here
18:06 < simon> chrisc, I think he may indirectly refer to yoss'es CMS at
english.indymedia.dk
18:06 * chrisc Zapata has done almost all the uk imc programming
18:06 < Zapata> no I didn't
18:06 < Zapata> but never mind
18:06 < toya> indycore -> using plone
18:06 < toya> i lost it...
18:06 < chrisc> ahh, ok, i have never heard of that...
18:06 < kwadronaut> then simon is around who also knows alot about
english.indymedia.dk
18:06 < simon> yes, I'm an expert!
18:06 < simon> haha
18:07 < toya> is an indymedia project based on plone, used to be called indyplone
now is indycore
18:07 < toya> there were a lot of people interested in this project
18:07 < toya> talking on irc
18:07 < toya> and on the list
18:07 * simon only knows a little about english.indymedia.dk since he was spying on
yossarian while he was installing it.
18:07 < toya> <cellphonebreak>
18:07 < kev> plone rocks!
18:08 < gus> (we can listen ryan at phone)
18:08 -!- elisa [elisa@2a3532.e3eb72.2a009a.730598] has quit [Quit: Fui embora]
18:08 < guido> oh this plone indy site looks great
18:10 < toya> it got intresting cuz engagemedia announced plumi
18:10 < pvh_> *raises hand*
18:10 < toya> which is a video sharing thing they developed for plone
18:10 < toya> pvh_: go for it
18:11 < pvh_> my problem with plone is that its quite an opaque development
environment
18:11 < pvh_> the community might be vocal, but its a pretty small one in my
experience. and the software puts a substantial load on servers
18:11 * Zapata suggests we do not go into details at this point
18:11 < pvh_> ok
18:12 < simon> good idea
18:12 < toya> >this is just a introduction< so when we are done we can have a
discussion of what we want to do etc
18:12 < toya> last month and a have
18:12 < toya> a cms project that is not very popular
18:12 < toya> mambo
18:13 < toya> which is deciding to use cake
18:13 < toya> as their framework
18:13 < toya> and mambo in the couple of months
18:13 < toya> will be developming a bunch of conde for media etc using cakephp
18:13 < toya> we dont need to use mambo
18:13 < toya> but we could take advance of this code they are doing
18:14 < toya> as well they can do for us
18:14 < toya> the idea here is not to start from scratch necessary, we will at some
way,
18:14 < toya> fuck
18:14 < toya> i am loosing it
18:14 < simon> I could take over?
18:15 < toya> simon: thanks simon
18:15 < Zapata> go simon
18:15 < simon> I could rewrite sfactive with cakephp in one weekend
18:15 < simon> fuck, my keyboard can't do this. missing too many keys
18:15 < simon> my fingers hurt clicking the empty sockets fast
18:16 < toya> :(
18:16 < simon> 2 secs
18:16 < toya> ryan did a break
18:17 < toya> we are almost done with this
18:18 < ryan> simon? are you ready?
18:18 < ryan> simon????
18:18 < occam> go on ryan...
18:18 < simon> in literally 5 seconds
18:18 < occam> just finish it
18:19 < occam> 4
18:19 < occam> 3
18:19 < occam> 2
18:19 < occam> 1
18:19 < simon> alright I'm just gonna continue
18:19 < simon> uhm
18:19 < occam> :)
18:19 -!- simon is now known as stream
18:19 < stream> okay
18:19 < stream> here we go
18:19 < stream> so
18:19 < stream> alright, ready, here we go
18:19 < stream> so, the point is that sanfransisco just can't wait any longer
18:20 -!- drebs [drebs@2a3532.942a78.fe9440.068a2e] has joined #techmeet
18:20 < stream> to be back online, and so our option is so that we could just
install the latest version of sfactive
18:20 < stream> but we had a lot of plans for sfactive that we thin kwould really
revolutionise indymedia more than just
18:20 < stream> we think that that the changes combined with indymedia cms could be
the forefront *sorry*
18:21 < stream> (sorry, people are talking to me)
18:21 < toya> indymedia sf can be the protocol for this project
18:21 < occam> the example project
18:21 < stream> you can read about about it at sf.indymedia.org, you can read about
it because we do need help badly, and you can email me at
ryan@indymedia.org
18:21 < Zapata> the guinnea pig
18:21 < stream> these are just my personal recommendations, just the recommendations
I came up with
18:22 < stream> after I looked at it all, basically, what it came down to basically,
we had three different types we could go with this cms project
18:22 < stream> one way is an established php cms, because a lot of those, drupal,
joomla, mambo, bla bla bla
18:22 < stream> and in addition, drupal has an established userbase within indymedia
18:22 < stream> drupal is a winner in those categories, out of the categories of the
standard php cms, drupal is the winner
18:22 < stream> then there's plone
18:23 < stream> which represents another category of cmses
18:23 < stream> which has application/server paradigm, plone is the winner out of
that one
18:23 < stream> again, there are interesting projects within indymedia to make an
indymedia cms out of it
18:23 < stream> and the third is making one from scratch, and I think cakephp is the
winner out of that one
18:24 < stream> I have a lot of experience with it, and I think a lot of other imc
people have experience with it
18:24 < stream> so my recommendations are that we take those three solutions and
examining them
18:24 < stream> for drupal we'd see which drupal site is the best within indymedia
18:25 < stream> (bit skipped) so my recommendations are that we take these three
solutions, hammer the hell out of them for the next two months and
see what we can make of it
18:25 < stream> after this introduction, I think we can have a pretty good
discussion about it
18:25 < stream> that's all I have
18:25 < ryan> ok
18:25 -!- stream is now known as simon
18:25 < Zapata> ok
18:26 < ryan> i'm back here now :)
18:26 < occam> cool
18:26 < simon> I'm sorry for not being as fast as I thought I could be ^_^
18:26 * Zapata raises
18:26 < ryan> its cool
18:26 * simon blames his keyboard!
18:26 < toya> heheh
18:26 < toya> ;)
18:26 < toya> Zapata: go!
18:26 < Zapata> so...
18:26 < Zapata> the "decision" for today would be whether we would go for ryan's
proposal or not:
18:27 < Zapata> we limit ourselves right now to these three options and discuss a
way to properly evaluate them ove rthe next 2 months
18:27 < Zapata> I agree with this proposal
18:27 < Zapata> and I have some ideas on how to follow through:
18:27 < Zapata> find an advocate for each of the three options
18:27 < Zapata> ryan could go with the cake thing, I'd go with plone, and we find
someone to go for drupal
18:27 < Zapata> set up 3 sites or whatever
18:27 * ryan raises
18:27 < Zapata> and then have discussions over it afterwards
18:27 < Zapata> <end>
18:28 * simon raises a hand also
18:28 < Zapata> go ryan... (in lieu of a mod)
18:28 < ryan> zapata, i think you should mod
18:28 < ryan> ok so
18:28 < ryan> i will end with (end)
18:28 < ryan> so one thing is, is there an existing plone indymedia?
18:28 < guido> ryan: indy.gr
18:28 < ryan> yeah, thats what i thought
18:29 < ryan> so, zapata, maybe you can set up a test site
18:29 < ryan> but also work with these guys
18:29 < ryan> tht's all (end)
18:29 * Zapata in response: I'd ofcourse get in touch with whoever is working on
indymedia / plone... for instance and_ and the greeks
18:29 < Zapata> simon: go
18:30 < simon> my impression is that ryan's model is a useful categorisation of all
our options rather than a restriction to any one of them. I like
Zapata's idea of separating into groups/persons for each of the three
categorisations. I think depending on whatever solution we feel the
most for.
18:30 * ryan raises
18:30 < Zapata> simon: done?
18:31 < simon> (end) (I have more but let me just express it instead of letting you
wait)
18:31 < Zapata> go ryan
18:31 < ryan> one thing to consider
18:31 < ryan> is that no matter which direction we go
18:31 < ryan> it's likely that the drupal IMC's arent going to go with us
18:31 * Zapata in response: not on the short term at least
18:31 < ryan> i think it will be hard to convince them ALL to give up their drupal
sites and swich
18:32 * toya raises
18:32 * Zapata raises
18:32 < ryan> whereas for sfa and mir sites, this will be easy, i think
18:32 * kev raises
18:32 < ryan> so, i think we should consider that
18:32 < ryan> this is okay -- that the goal here is not to dominate indmedia with a
monolithic codebase
18:32 < ryan> but rather, to build a new development team comprised of:
18:32 < ryan> a) former sfa developers
18:32 < ryan> b) former mir developers
18:32 < ryan> c) new people who are excited about indymedia
18:33 < ryan> and let the drupal project continue
18:33 < ryan> like, if we could accomplish a, b, and c, i know my life woul dbe a
hell of a lot easier
18:33 < ryan> regardless of what happens with some of these sites running drupal
18:33 < ryan> (end)
18:33 < Zapata> simon?
18:33 < simon> not me, toya
18:33 * Zapata stack: simon, toya, zapata, kev
18:33 < Zapata> ok, toya
18:33 < Zapata> go
18:33 < simon> pop() me
18:34 < Zapata> ;-)
18:34 < toya> about who will migrate or not this can be left for a latter stage,
right now many imcs wants to migrate but not sure to where
18:34 < pvh_> *twiddles fingers for the stack*
18:34 < toya> so i think whenever we have an option for them to look and decide
18:34 -!- anna [anna@4f2848.725375.519b68.c8ed03] has joined #techmeet
18:34 < toya> we can talk more about how this will be presented etc, also
18:35 < toya> all this will be discussed with users and is at this moment where
people will make their decision
18:35 < toya> i think
18:35 < toya> if they would like to help with this project or stay with the cms they
are using
18:35 < toya> which is ok of course
18:36 < toya> another thing i would like to say is that it sould be nice if we have
something that can make possible for more people who are on a learning
stage still
18:36 < toya> to participate
18:36 < toya> cuz there are a lot of people who are in this stage and would be up to
help
18:36 < toya> done!
18:36 < Zapata> ok
18:36 < Zapata> so...
18:36 < Zapata> I agree with ryan basically
18:36 < Zapata> my goal for the cms project is to come to a workable solution for
indy's cms needs
18:36 < Zapata> so I and other are relieved
18:37 < Zapata> I don't care whether indymedia's use other cmses, as long as I don't
need to keep their sites up
18:37 < Zapata> I just want to get my life back ;-)
18:37 < Zapata> <end>
18:37 < Zapata> kev?
18:37 < kev> ok
18:37 * Zapata stack pvh
18:37 < kev> well i agree with what has been said
18:38 < kev> i�ve been maintaing an "indy like" site for a few years with drupal
18:38 < kev> cml.vientos.info
18:38 < kev> and we�re are now looking into moving to plone
18:38 < kev> so i can maybe help out with the drupal and plone efforts
18:38 < kev> (end)
18:38 < Zapata> pvh
18:39 < pvh_> our imc is severely tech-deprived, with the majority of members not
having internet access
18:39 < pvh_> so we tend to use our site as an "archive".. and also to support the
ability of internet-less people to get stuff up
18:39 * simon raises
18:40 < pvh_> we identified some months back that sfa is hard to use for
new-to-internet people and isn't great for non-text... so we are in an
extended process of considering how the internet fits in with out work
- sometimes the "imc site" tradition doesn't seem to fit us terribly
well
18:40 < pvh_> (too tech-heavy)
18:41 < pvh_> so if there is a new development, we're looking on eagerly, but won't
be able to directly help much
18:41 < pvh_> (end)
18:41 < Zapata> simon!
18:41 * Zapata raises
18:41 * Zapata stack Zapata
18:41 < simon> brief summary of IMC denmark's CMS situation:
18:41 < simon> 1. dadaimc for about a week until we skipped it. 2. oscailt2 for
about a year until we decided to migrate because of php4/php5
incompliancy on server migration. 3. oscailt3 for about a year and a
half.
18:41 < simon> We were intent on migrating away from oscailt3 because it was hard to
work with. Three weeks ago it just broke (server migration again),
and we have hacked up a 250-lined "CMS" that we are very intent on
either improving or replacing.
18:41 < simon> As response to this, we are actually developing this and we called it
"tinypublish" because it belongs to solution 3 in ryan's model (i.e.
it is basically just a PHP5 class with a bunch of get_, display_ and
publish_ methods.)
18:41 < simon> Coding is done by simon with help from coax and scout. We're
programming it "extremely" (without severe knowledge of actual
software development), which means we have some milestones and some
ambitions that our current code yet doesn't do (e.g. we intend to add
smarty support instead of having inline html in our class, etc.)
18:42 < simon> To summarise all of this real quickly: In our IMC we felt we couldn't
afford to wait any longer, and as ryan said, he could do a CakePHP
CMS in a weekend. that's pretty much what we have done, except I
suffer from a depression and have to stretch it over weeks. :-)
18:42 < simon> You can see what we're doing at:
http://tinypublish.indymedia.dk/developers/
18:42 < simon> I have something more to say on a different subject, but I'll wait.
(end)
18:42 < Zapata> ok
18:43 < Zapata> I would like to make a point to pvh, but it can apply to simon as
well
18:43 < toya> k
18:43 < Zapata> what I would like to have is a dedicated and "professional" team of
people managing cms software for indymedia
18:43 < Zapata> so that a small imc with no techies still can have access to a good
cms
18:44 < Zapata> I don't like the model where technology is selected so that
_everyone_ can understand it
18:44 < Zapata> I think it's enough if _enough_ people understand it
18:44 < Zapata> <end>
18:44 * toya raises
18:44 < Zapata> toya?
18:44 < toya> ok
18:44 * simon raises
18:45 < toya> i would like to have here a cms that besides all the things we aready
listed last year
18:45 < toya> will also be easier for people to learn how to help out
18:45 < toya> things like modules are something like that
18:46 * ryan raises
18:46 < toya> also the languague we choose will be another point
18:46 < toya> sarava
18:46 < pvh_> raises
18:47 < RoB> * RoB Rasies
18:47 < toya> is a project that tries to organize and do the work in ways that is
possible for people to check how it is and jump in to help
18:47 * Zapata stack simon ryan pvh RoB
18:47 * Zapata stack overflow error
18:47 < toya> imc brasil tech
18:47 < Zapata> ;-)
18:47 < toya> is organizing itself that way too
18:47 < toya> so that is something important i would like to see with this cms
18:47 < toya> so we can have more people learning
18:47 < toya> cuz there is a lack of people
18:47 < toya> for sure to do tech work, and is really a need for imc's
18:47 < simon> I agree with Zapata that we need a dedicated and professional team of
developers across the IMCs.
18:47 * Zapata raises
18:48 * simon sorry
18:48 < toya> specially in latin america to be more independent on this part
18:48 < toya> done
18:48 < Zapata> simon!
18:48 < simon> sorry for interrupting. -^ applies
18:48 * Zapata stack ryan pvh RoB Zapata
18:48 < Zapata> and that was it, simon?
18:48 < Zapata> that was all?
18:48 < simon> no
18:48 < Zapata> ok :-), go!
18:49 < simon> but I'm not sure if Zapata means that we need to "outsource" this to
a specific CMS group, or have a cross-IMC working group interested in
different codebases or in the general situation of finding a specific
codebase beyond the others.
18:49 < simon> (end)
18:49 < Zapata> ryan!
18:49 * Zapata stack pvh RoB Zapata
18:50 < Zapata> ryan?
18:50 < ryan> ok
18:50 < ryan> soyrr
18:50 < ryan> one thing i wanted to add is that i think that
18:51 < ryan> the day after the development path is chosen
18:51 < ryan> whatever it is
18:51 < ryan> our first discussion is about how to organize a development team the
right way, get that set up, and enforce that discipline
18:51 < ryan> lately, i have been using trac as the basis for this on programming
projects i manage
18:52 < ryan> trac integrates wiki with ticket system with milestones with roadmap
with version control
18:52 < ryan> it's amazing and i'm in love with it
18:53 < ryan> even if it isnt trac, i wanted to add this in to keep this in people's
minds
18:53 < ryan> as they think about moving forward
18:53 < ryan> (end)
18:53 < Zapata> pvh!
18:53 * Zapata stack RoB Zapata
18:53 [Users #techmeet]
18:53 [ A-Kaser] [ dannyp ] [ gdm ] [ jaromil ] [ nikete] [ ryan ]
18:53 [ acracia] [ drebs ] [ groente ] [ kev ] [ occam ] [ scout ]
18:53 [ anna ] [ ekes ] [ guido ] [ kwadronaut] [ osu ] [ simon ]
18:53 [ boud ] [ epsas ] [ gus ] [ mat ] [ pepe ] [ startx]
18:53 [ briks ] [ fierman] [ HurricaneJoAnne] [ mtoups ] [ pvh_ ] [ subtle]
18:53 [ chrisc ] [ foz ] [ iconocla1t ] [ nah ] [ rhatto] [ toya ]
18:53 [ clackty] [ g ] [ iconoclast ] [ nenolod ] [ RoB ] [ Zapata]
18:53 -!- Irssi: #techmeet: Total of 42 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 42 normal]18:54 < Zapata> pvh_ ?
18:54 < pvh_> ok, i agree with the usefulness of a "cms team" and it would of course
be useful to try and create enthusiasm for a non-fragmented cms dev
effort
18:54 < pvh_> that depends on the "soft" discipline / etc factors ryan mentioned
18:55 < pvh_> from a tech point of view, i guess i just mean that the "admin /
editor" interface should not be tech heavy. one should not need to
know html to put up a story, etc
18:55 < pvh_> end
18:56 < Zapata> RoB
18:56 < Zapata> go!
18:56 < RoB> Ok, this is probably a seperate agenda item
18:56 < RoB> There was a proposal that came out of the US IMC meetup at the US
Social Forum
18:57 < RoB> For a tech and admin retreat/barnraising/training
18:57 < RoB> I think it would be great to integrate whatever comes out of this CMS
development effort into sucha orject
18:58 < RoB> if anyone wants to see it, it's here:
http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-us/2007-July/0716-ly.html
18:58 < RoB> (end)
18:58 < Zapata> ok
18:58 < Zapata> so
18:58 < Zapata> in response to toya:
18:58 < Zapata> I agree it's vital to set up an effort that leads to a low treshold
for people that want to help
18:58 < Zapata> but this goes way beyond the language chosen
18:58 < Zapata> any project in any language can be hard to join and it can be easy
to join
18:59 < Zapata> if people don't know language X, we can teach people
18:59 < Zapata> if we have an inferior quality of code / documentation / human
support, it'll be next to impossible for people to join, even if the
language is php ;-)
18:59 < Zapata> in response to simon:
19:00 < Zapata> this group, as far as I'm concerned, already consists of people
working on indy cmses
19:00 < Zapata> mainly mir and sf-active
19:00 < Zapata> the impetus for this effort is to combine forces to a single cms
19:00 < Zapata> so we can be more effective
19:00 * ryan notes that php is the most accessible language available to web
programmers
19:00 < Zapata> I would not want to limit other efforts, but I'm focuses on a single
cms
19:00 * simon raises
19:00 < Zapata> <end>
19:00 < Zapata> simon!
19:01 * ryan raises
19:01 * Zapata stack ryan
19:01 < nenolod> lets write a CMS in C
19:01 < groente> \o/
19:01 < nenolod> </comedy relief>
19:01 < simon> what I've been announcing here in denmark is that I'm also willing to
find teachers/teach people to write code if they like. it'd be nice
to have a more central/essentially bigger group they can latch onto.
19:01 < simon> <end>
19:02 < Zapata> ryan!
19:02 * simon notes that he seconds ryan's note on php, not that it is his
favourite language at all.
19:02 < ryan> i wanted to support what zapata said
19:03 < nenolod> yeah, php is a good choice as long as there is sane coding
standards enforced
19:03 < ryan> and i wanted to get a quick answer from zapata -- how many mir
developers would be active when we got this going?
19:03 < nenolod> the problem with php is that it is usually ugly :P
19:03 < simon> nenolod, /me raises, but otherwise good point.
19:03 < ryan> nenolod: that's what cakephp is for, it is hyper-organized
19:03 < nenolod> oh right, sorry
19:03 < ryan> zapata?
19:03 < Zapata> ok
19:03 < Zapata> well
19:03 < Zapata> there's me
19:03 * nenolod raises after the point
19:04 < nenolod> ;)
19:04 < Zapata> there's john, but I haven't heard his opinion
19:04 * simon raises
19:04 < Zapata> there are a bunch of people that aren't developers but that work
with mir, they could be very usefull, like chrisc (who is here) and
yossarian
19:04 < Zapata> does that answer your point?
19:04 < Zapata> I'm not saying btw
19:04 < Zapata> that php is worse
19:04 * simon lowers
19:04 < ryan> yes, that's good
19:04 < occam> de.indy also has allot of mir knwoledge..
19:04 < Zapata> or that php souldn't be better
19:05 < ryan> so like 3-4 ?
19:05 * nenolod raises
19:05 < Zapata> or that php wouldn't be better
19:05 < ryan> sf-active has about 6-8
19:05 < Zapata> but it's 1 factor of many
19:05 < ryan> so
19:05 * chrisc nods
19:05 < Zapata> if we get something going, I can involve a lot of people, I'm sure
19:05 < ryan> and i bet we could get at least 4 new people from all these meetings
and recruitment
19:05 < ryan> if we had a disciplined development team of 14 people,
19:05 < Zapata> including people that would like to work on a cms, but don't like
java / find mir to be hard to grasp
19:06 < ryan> especially with a rapid application development,
19:06 < ryan> there's nothing we couldnt do :D
19:06 * occam thinks around 4 techs in germany who are interested in cms stuff
19:06 * simon thinks around 3 in denmark right now
19:06 < ryan> coding this CMS and the extensions it needs
19:06 < ryan> could go so fkn fast, if organized correctly
19:07 < nenolod> one issue with mir is that it's very monolithic and only a few
people (john, maybe Zapata) know 100% how it works
19:07 < ryan> so, i just wanted to add that little note of encourgement
19:07 < Zapata> ok
19:07 < Zapata> so...
19:07 < ryan> (End
19:07 < Zapata> how can we close this agenda item?
19:07 < ryan> i know how
19:07 < ryan> isnt there a stack?
19:08 < Zapata> I think it's empty
19:08 < ryan> then i can suggest how
19:08 < ryan> nenolod raised
19:08 < simon> ryan, I agree. we've got something minimalistic running in something
like a week if we add our days of productivity together.
19:08 < toya> 19:05 * nenolod raises
19:08 < ryan> nenolod, you got something to say or whats up?
19:08 * kwadronaut raises too. (short)
19:09 < Zapata> you're right, toya...
19:09 < nenolod> one issue with mir is that it's very monolithic and only a few
people (john, maybe Zapata) know 100% how it works
19:09 * nenolod lowers
19:09 < Zapata> maybe Zapata????
19:09 < Zapata> ;-)
19:09 < Zapata> kwadronaut: go!
19:09 < kwadronaut> i'd just like to add that i like what has been said until now
and i totally agree about getting 3 teams, coming back together
and using the guillotine for 2 of the 3 things.
19:09 < kwadronaut> (end)
19:10 < Zapata> ok, ryan
19:10 < Zapata> go
19:10 < ryan> whoa, sorry, i just had a weird lag
19:11 * simon raises
19:11 < ryan> ok so i would suggest that we form 3 teams, basically what kwad said
19:11 < ryan> we form 3 teams, and we do a complete analysis of the website
prototypes we have available to us
19:12 < ryan> so, indy.gr would be one
19:12 < ryan> whatever drupal one
19:12 * occam raises
19:12 < ryan> i'll come back with the "save sf-imc" progress
19:12 < ryan> we get together and we look at all these analyses
19:12 < ryan> (while working on them, we can share with each other what types of
information we're gathering, so we can compare the same things)
19:13 < ryan> and i say we do that by dec 1
19:13 < nenolod> how about a wikipage on the techmeet mediawiki?
19:13 < ryan> and then, on dec 1, we get together and we compare the analyses
19:13 < ryan> and when we do, it'll become clear to us what other data we need
19:13 < ryan> to make a final decision
19:13 < ryan> so:
19:14 < ryan> 1- form teams. i assume we get one bottom-liner who is responsible for
it
19:14 < ryan> 2- analyze our prototypes
19:14 < simon> ryan, should we have a main coordinator for each group just so we
have one who is responsible for collecting the internal group
discussion and summarising it?
19:14 < ryan> 3- meet on dec 1, outcome will be a plan of action towards what we
need to do to make final decision
19:14 -!- rhatto [berne@3dc69a.b02399.e1eef0.6b9fe2] has left #techmeet []
19:14 < ryan> this should be coordinated on imc-cms list
19:14 < simon> ok
19:15 < ryan> and then, maybe documentation
19:15 < ryan> can go on whatever existing documentation there is for the individual
projects?
19:15 < ryan> like i'm sure indycore has a wiki or something
19:15 < ryan> the drupal folks do
19:15 < ryan> etc
19:15 * Zapata wants to coordinate the plone effort
19:15 < Zapata> we should find someone for drupal
19:15 < ryan> and i wanna coordinate the cakephp one
19:15 < ryan> the drupal one is hard
19:15 < ryan> for me, at least, i dunno who would do that
19:15 < ryan> (end)
19:16 < Zapata> any volunteers?
19:17 < Zapata> anyway:
19:17 < Zapata> simon!
19:17 * Zapata stack occam
19:17 < simon> (end) got sidetracked
19:17 < toya> i dont think i konw enought to do it
19:17 < Zapata> occam!
19:17 * Zapata maybe someone using drupal for imc is willing to help us
19:18 < ryan> maybe we just email them and ask them
19:18 < occam> it would also be interesting to know how much work it is to migrate
from mir/sfa/dada/whatever to plone/drupal/cakephp/the new mambo/
19:18 < ryan> i think they have a list
19:18 < toya> a lot of poeple on imc-audio is talking about making radio.indy iwth
drupal
19:18 < ryan> oh wait
19:18 < toya> they might be up to help
19:18 < ryan> let me look at the CMS report
19:18 < ryan> and see who the drupal champion on there was
19:18 < ryan> hold on
19:19 < ryan> it was agent humble
19:19 < ryan> from resist.ca
19:19 < ryan> he is also active on the medawiki dev team
19:19 -!- kev [kev@48dff2.bbf3e8.2a2319.105f01] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds]
19:20 < ryan> lets nominate him :)
19:20 * kwadronaut raises on drupal
19:20 < Zapata> kwadronaut, go
19:20 < ryan> he wrote this: "Implementation of Drupal websites for non-profits and
political projects, for
19:20 < ryan> the past year.
19:20 < ryan> thats what he does
19:20 < kwadronaut> there is both a drupal-dev list and a couple of people in here
that are very active with it (ekes for example)
19:20 < ryan> oops, sorry, kwadro
19:21 < kwadronaut> should we ask there/them and agent humble too?
19:21 * ryan raises
19:21 < kwadronaut> (end)
19:21 < ryan> ok i'm going
19:21 < ryan> so
19:22 < ryan> i think we should email agent humble
19:22 < ryan> he already showed initiative as being part of the project,
19:22 < ryan> and from his answers here he would be perfect for the job
19:22 < ryan> and then, ask him if he doesnt want to do it, then who he thinks could
do it
19:22 < ryan> and contact them
19:22 -!- kev [kev@48dff2.bbf3e8.2a2319.105f01] has joined #techmeet
19:23 < ryan> my problem with emailing with dev list
19:23 < ryan> is that its going to take forever
19:23 < ryan> i dunno.. agent humble seems to fit the bill of what we want
19:24 < ryan> and we dont want is some random volunteer or whatever
19:24 < ryan> i could be all wrong
19:24 < ryan> and agent humble is an idiot
19:24 * gus notes: the new italian collectives are using drupal
19:24 * kwadronaut just adds ekes to the list: he has showed both knowledge and
interest. but i'm fine with asking agent humble first.
19:24 < ryan> well, i'm fith approaching ekes as well
19:24 < ryan> *fine
19:25 < Zapata> ekes sounds fine
19:25 < ryan> i'm just in favor of asking people we know are responsible, involved,
etc
19:25 < Zapata> and i don't know agent humble
19:25 < ryan> rather than send off an email to the public and hope for something good19:25 < kwadronaut> presuming he wants to do it and has the time/energy ;-)
19:25 < ryan> of course
19:25 < ryan> either of those guys could say no
19:25 < ryan> but, we gotta try
19:26 < Zapata> ok
19:26 < Zapata> who will we approach first?
19:26 < Zapata> and who will approach him/her?
19:26 < groente> for the record: levin is pretty good with drupal aswell
19:26 < Zapata> very true
19:26 < simon> are we discussing for drupal specifically?
19:26 < Zapata> yeah, we need someone to coordinate the drupal effort
19:28 < kev> have you tried leaving a messege in #drupal-dev
19:28 < kev> ?
19:28 -!- jsilence [jsilence@f67919.6722f6.ad9fe3.e45c9c] has joined #techmeet
19:29 < Zapata> well, it would be in between asking someone direct and sending an
email
19:29 < Zapata> I'd favor starting with asking specific people
19:29 < Zapata> ekes, levin, agent humble
19:29 < kev> i work with, but don�t much like it. so i�m not sure how much help i
could be
19:29 < kev> i work with drupal, i meant to say
19:30 < ryan> i can approach agent humble
19:30 < ryan> kwadro, can you approach ekes?
19:30 < kwadronaut> i will
19:30 < ryan> cool, and reportback to imc-cms list i think
19:31 < kwadronaut> ryan: ok if i report immediately back to you so you can then
approach humble?
19:33 < ryan> let's approach simultaneously
19:33 < ryan> if both say yes they can figure it out
19:34 < simon> have any of you got any estimates of how many we'll be in these
working groups?
19:34 * occam will check out with plone and cake...
19:34 < Zapata> a couple of people in each group should do I'd say
19:35 < Zapata> btw... people interested in helping with plone, please leave me a
msg... I'd like to set up a kick off meeting coming week
19:36 < simon> I'm hoping ryan will do the same for option three?
19:36 < ryan> do which same?
19:37 < simon> a group meeting discussing cakephp?
19:37 < ryan> oh yeah
19:37 < ryan> it'll be totally organized nice
19:37 -!- nenolod [nenolod@irc.indymedia.org] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
19:37 < simon> ^_^
19:37 < ryan> as the 'save sf-imc campaign'
19:37 < simon> is there a document describing what the "safe sf-imc" is about; are
you in a struggle tech-wise?
19:38 < ryan> a struggle?
19:38 < ryan> well, we need volunteers :) thats our struggle
19:38 < simon> are you short of a CMS?
19:38 < simon> ohhh
19:38 < ryan> anyway, lets chat about this elsewhere, elsetime
19:38 < simon> denmark is sort of in a need of techs
19:38 < simon> yep
19:38 < ryan> let's figure out how to end this meeting
19:38 < ryan> so, do we know what we're doing?
19:38 < occam> 3) documentating techmeet 2007
19:38 < ryan> is my proposal accepted?
19:38 < occam> 4) working groups - next steps
19:39 < occam> 5) techmeet 2008
19:39 < occam> ryan: guess so :)
19:39 < ryan> roposal ->
19:39 < ryan> 13:13 < ryan> 1- form teams. i assume we get one bottom-liner who is
responsible for it
19:39 < ryan> 13:14 < ryan> 2- analyze our prototypes
19:39 < ryan> 13:14 < ryan> 3- meet on dec 1, outcome will be a plan of action
towards what we need to do to make final decision
19:40 < ryan> meet NEAR december 1st :)
19:40 < ryan> i have an important marriage-related commitment on dec 1 :)
19:40 < ryan> i was just reminded :)
19:40 < occam> lol
19:40 < iconoclast> ryan: you're getting married? :)
19:40 < ryan> ok, so, that's the proposal
19:40 < ryan> i will sent do the list
19:41 < toya> tsc tsc tsc
19:41 -!- nenolod [nenolod@irc.indymedia.org] has joined #techmeet
19:42 < ryan> iconoclast: already did
19:42 < ryan> ok so 3) documentating techmeet 2007
19:42 * toya raises
19:42 * occam raises
19:43 < toya> can i go?
19:43 < Zapata> sorry
19:43 < Zapata> go toya
19:43 < toya> ok
19:43 * Zapata stack occam
19:43 < toya> http://www.techmeet.org/txt/Techmeet_2007
19:43 < toya> here i added at the bottom
19:43 < toya> [edit] Summary of the Sunday Conferences:
19:43 < toya> added the irc log i had
19:43 < toya> from each sunday
19:44 < toya> and a summary from the past one
19:44 < toya> that was it so far
19:44 < occam> just a note: there is a video record of the stream from berlin of the
first techmeet sunday.. give me a query if you wanne see it
19:44 < toya> i havent added reports from cities (only from uk cuz it was done on
irc)
19:44 < toya> i wonder if people are ok with putting this stuff at the wiki
19:45 < toya> i am not sure about it
19:45 < toya> done
19:45 * ryan raises
19:45 < Zapata> occam
19:46 * Zapata stack ryan
19:46 < occam> just a note: there is a video record of the stream from berlin of the
first techmeet sunday.. give me a query if you wanne see it
19:46 < occam> end
19:46 < Zapata> ryan
19:46 * Zapata raises
19:46 < Zapata> ryan!!!
19:46 < ryan> OK!
19:46 < ryan> TOUCHDOWN
19:46 < ryan> TOUCHDOWN
19:46 < ryan> TOUCHDOWN
19:46 < ryan> TOUCHDOWN
19:47 < ryan> SEE WHY I WAS WAITING
19:47 < ryan> GODDAMN
19:47 < ryan> ok sorry everyone
19:47 < Zapata> order in the meeting please!!!
19:47 < ryan> my fault entirely
19:47 < ryan> ok
19:47 < ryan> os
19:47 < ryan> what i was gonna say is that i think we should really document this
year's techmeet
19:47 < ryan> like get all the audio/video/irclogs and put it somewhere
19:47 < ryan> nice
19:48 < ryan> maybe switch wikis, i think what we have now is fugly
19:48 < ryan> but its all something we can coordinate on the list, i volunteer to
start the email to get it going
19:48 < ryan> but i think its important to not only keep momentum going on the
various projects we've discussed, i mean, we gotta do that
19:48 * toya can help with documentation and with the software
19:48 < ryan> but also, i think its important to share the work we've done here
19:49 < ryan> because, at least for me, its fkn inspiring to see people get together
19:49 < ryan> and talk about indymedia like this
19:49 < ryan> sao paulo was REALLY inspiring so i cant wait for techmeet 2008
19:49 < ryan> but anyway, i think we should put together a good summary page
19:49 < ryan> with links to everything
19:49 < ryan> and promote that page everywhere, imc newswires maybe, a lot of places
19:50 < pvh_> ryan, yes, it is good to see life in the old beast ;)
19:50 < ryan> because, i'm kind of confused why some people havent shown up at these
meetings
19:50 < ryan> pvh: exactly
19:50 < ryan> i want techmeet to inspire alllll of indymedia
19:50 < ryan> not just a couple of us
19:50 < ryan> so i'll send that email :)
19:50 < ryan> End
19:50 * toya can put this info on docs as well
19:50 * Zapata will put up the notes from the techmeet nl meeting
19:50 < Zapata> and I'll write a personal account of it
19:50 < Zapata> <end>
19:51 * occam does the same for the german stuff
19:51 < Zapata> anyone else on this topic?
19:52 < Zapata> ok
19:52 < Zapata> shall we move on to the next agenda item then?
19:52 < toya> i think we can coordinate on the list
19:52 < toya> TECHMEET 2008!
19:52 < toya> is it?
19:53 < Zapata> indeed it is
19:53 < Zapata> techmeet 2008
19:53 < Zapata> who will start? ryan?
19:53 < Zapata> toya?
19:53 < toya> ok
19:53 < toya> we had proposed to do techmeet 2008 (face-to-face)
19:53 < toya> in bogota,colombia
19:54 < toya> but people from there are very disperse and havent been around
techmeet or the email list
19:54 < toya> cuz of it we have talked (informally) about doing it either in
santiago/chile or bsas/argentina
19:54 * ryan raises
19:54 < toya> around the same time of debconf
19:54 < toya> (july/aug??)
19:54 < toya> done
19:54 < Zapata> ryan!
19:55 < ryan> oh!
19:55 < ryan> yes
19:55 < ryan> we should start thinking now about finances
19:55 < ryan> it would be nice to get a ton of people there
19:56 < ryan> it'll be hard
19:56 < ryan> (end)
19:56 < Zapata> anyone else?
19:56 < toya> i can send an email about this to the list - we can have only
donations (paypall) or something to litlle by little go collecting the
money
19:56 < toya> to help people's tickets
19:56 -!- scout [scout@fee8b2.936b30.f4407e.ef36b5] has quit [Ping timeout: 121
seconds]
19:57 < toya> done
19:57 < pvh_> raises
19:57 < Zapata> go, pvh_
19:58 < toya> only/online (sorry)
19:59 * ryan raises
19:59 < pvh_> by that time, i suspect we'll have better indy / township tech
contacts, so it might be useful to have someone go to the techmeet...
but we might need fundraising assistance
19:59 < pvh_> in any event, i think we can prepare for a good online presence (i
know an internet center which is well positioned for that). timezones
will be hard though
20:00 < pvh_> ends
20:00 * toya raises
20:00 * ryan unraises
20:00 < Zapata> toya
20:01 < toya> last techmeet we did, in sao paulo we manage to get the funds from
each other so everyone could be there, who could pay for him/herself
payed, who could help a second person did it...and so on
20:01 < toya> doing that way we got a good number of people there
20:01 < toya> chile, uruguay, argentina,usa,nl,germany etc
20:01 < toya> that was pretty cool
20:01 < toya> with the online donation thing
20:01 < Zapata> australia
20:02 < toya> people can put in there 10 bucks a month or sothing like that
20:02 < toya> for us to little by little collect it
20:02 < toya> we can do parties and put the money from it there too
20:02 < toya> and other ways
20:02 < toya> we have at least 6 months for raising it this way without
20:02 -!- RoB [pjirc@31356a.15aa3e.a85214.c9637a] has quit [Ping timeout: 121
seconds]
20:02 < toya> going after making projects for donations etc
20:02 < toya> done
20:03 < Zapata> anyone ?
20:03 < Zapata> ...
20:03 < ryan> not really
20:04 * kev has off topic comment
20:04 < Zapata> go, kev
20:04 < ryan> it all sounds fkn great to me
20:04 < toya> we can summarize this and move on at the list
20:04 < occam> summary is done on the gobbie
20:04 < ryan> occam: you can move to wiki?
20:04 < occam> yes, one sec
20:04 < Zapata> kev?
20:04 < toya> good gobbie
20:04 < toya> ;)
20:05 < kev> ok i just wanted to say that there are a lot of people getting there
feet wet in tecy stuff in mexico, especially oaxaca
20:05 < Zapata> gobbY !!!
20:05 < kev> but it isn�t information about this sort of thing isn�t very clear
20:05 < kev> so many people don�t get involved because the either don�t know or
don�t get it
20:06 < ryan> kev: what sort of thing?
20:06 < kev> techmeet
20:06 < kev> indymedia
20:06 < simon> kev, how would you characterise the information barrier?
20:07 < Zapata> btw...
20:07 < Zapata> shall we close the meeting and continue informally?
20:07 * simon nods
20:07 < ryan> Zapata: i think so
20:07 < Zapata> ok
20:07 < ryan> END OF TECHMEET 2007
20:07 < Zapata> meeting closed :-)
20:07 < ryan> SNIFF
20:07 < kev> hehehe
20:07 < Zapata> ;-)
20:07 < ryan> ITS BITTERSWEET
20:07 < simon> o/~
20:07 < Zapata> the death of techmeet 2007 is the birth of techmeet 2008
20:07 < ryan> yes :)
20:07 < ryan> i'm so glad about the new cms
20:08 < simon> me too
20:08 < simon> I think it's one place we really need to get organised collectively.
20:08 < kev> simon, its a difficult cuestion and to be honest i don�t have a very
clear answer
20:08 < toya> yay! and many more to come!
20:08 < simon> instead of sitting with each our codebase in each our country
20:08 < toya> <-about techmeet
20:08 * pvh_ looks forward to the new tech trac ;)
20:09 < ryan> pvh_: join the save sfimc campaign
20:09 < ryan> pvh_: we're gonna have one soon :)
20:09 * pvh_ is trying to save imc-sa. lol
20:10 < ryan> heheheh
20:10 < ryan> you guys are still using that same graphic
20:10 < ryan> i made that one day
20:10 < ryan> forever ago
20:10 < pvh_> yes, we are
20:10 < simon> heheh
20:11 < pvh_> my job on saturday (for the layout-using-msword training workshop) was
the transport guy... 1 1/2 hours at either end of the workshop driving
around picking people up & dropping 'em off again
20:14 < pvh_> because our public transport system sucks (it would have taken people
between 2-3 hrs to get to the workshop) and anyway no one has money to
use it ;)
20:15 < occam> http://www.techmeet.org/txt/04Nov2007ConfSummary
20:15 < pvh_> making logos comes low down the priority list. LOL
20:15 < iconoclast> well, on a layout with msword workshop, that's probably the best
thing you can do there.. except dropping pploff in the desert :)
