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Sep 30 14:26:32 * Topic for #cms set by Zapata!Max@localhost at Sat Sep 23 23:36:23 2006
Sep 30 14:42:01 ryan hi
Sep 30 14:56:35 dannyp hello
Sep 30 14:58:31 Zapata hey
Sep 30 14:59:32 shensche cheers, dannyp
Sep 30 15:00:05 dannyp I assume everyone else is getting their water/tea/juice/coffee/beer ready as well
Sep 30 15:00:46 magduv hi all
Sep 30 15:01:08 * Zapata has changed the topic to: next CMS meeting NOW in #cms | Please Read: http://techmeet.sarava.org/English/Notes | http://cats.revolt.org/cats-vii/indymedia/ | ttp://techmeet.sarava.org/English/CMSProposal | Meeting logs: http://sindominio.net/~txopi/20060917-irc-log-cms.log
Sep 30 15:07:59 Zapata let's wait 5 more minutes
Sep 30 15:13:55 magduv 5 minutes passed.. let's start
Sep 30 15:14:05 Zapata yeah
Sep 30 15:14:15 Zapata let's arrange a facilitator and an agenda...
Sep 30 15:14:37 Zapata the agenda would be something like:
Sep 30 15:14:47 Zapata 0 introduction?
Sep 30 15:14:47 Zapata 1 reports on activities last 2 weeks
Sep 30 15:14:47 Zapata 2 plan activities for the next week: other cmses, other people reviewing them
Sep 30 15:14:47 Zapata 3 schedule a next meeting
Sep 30 15:14:51 Zapata ?
Sep 30 15:15:06 toya <-want to give a brief info about a cms some kids from brasil are creating and could be presented here as one option as well
Sep 30 15:15:38 Zapata let's make that part of agenda item 2
Sep 30 15:15:46 toya ok
Sep 30 15:16:34 magduv excuse me.. i red all documents i managed to find but it's still unclear for me - was really decided which language to use for new CMS or discussion stoped on using existing CMS?
Sep 30 15:17:00 boud we're nowhere near making decisions...
Sep 30 15:17:11 boud and certainly not on languages
Sep 30 15:18:03 magduv ?
Sep 30 15:18:50 boud we're having a general discussion with a certain amount of structure
Sep 30 15:18:53 elisa the point is that we don't think un this part already
Sep 30 15:19:00 ryan magduv: no. was not decided yet.
Sep 30 15:19:53 boud we haven't discussed how a decision will actually be made, i think the idea is that with sufficient information, consensus might be easy...
Sep 30 15:20:07 boud or rather, sufficiently well-organised, checked information
Sep 30 15:20:37 dannyp so... agenda and facilitator?
Sep 30 15:20:52 toya so hey
Sep 30 15:20:56 toya who will facilitade?
Sep 30 15:21:05 alex do we really need another introduction? if so, let's do it quickly
Sep 30 15:21:36 toya i dont think so
Sep 30 15:21:42 ryan YES we do
Sep 30 15:21:48 toya hehe
Sep 30 15:21:48 ryan or rather
Sep 30 15:21:55 ryan everyone from austrlia, say "AI"
Sep 30 15:21:57 kwadronaut so hi Gb
Sep 30 15:22:00 toya cool kwadronaut
Sep 30 15:22:11 Gb hi
Sep 30 15:22:17 toya heheheh
Sep 30 15:22:17 * alex imc germany, mir user/admin/sysad, did some documentation, doesn't like php :)
Sep 30 15:22:20 Zapata everybody from australia say crikey!
Sep 30 15:22:58 toya hehehe
Sep 30 15:23:03 * Fab ex-imc austria, fed up with dada, knows a bit of php, just here for listening :P
Sep 30 15:23:10 shensche everybody from Aotearoa say 'kiwi'. i am a techie from imc New Zealand
Sep 30 15:23:47 ryan <- san francisco
Sep 30 15:23:48 jebba i'm jeff. i sysadmin ahimsa*. I'm pretty much lurking on this one. I should have lots of vserver space here in a month or so if people need devel/test space. <done>
Sep 30 15:24:07 * kwadronaut imc .nl TT and just got engaged with the docs collectiv started on spip with libertinus.
Sep 30 15:24:13 * Zapata is from indy.nl and mir-coders... <end>
Sep 30 15:24:22 * toya imc brasil we use mir user/admin/sysad, also done documentation --nolangugue--Yet!
Sep 30 15:24:33 Gb hi jebba
Sep 30 15:24:34 * dannyp imc pittsburgh (although I'm living in the city of DC these days, I occasionally do sysadmin work for pittsburgh from here, and looking to do more), has spent time trying to keep servers with sf-active and dadaIMC online, and I spend my days doing PHP+mysql work and have been known to do javascript/ajax/web2.0ish things for work
Sep 30 15:24:36 * boud imc poland - torun and new-imc
Sep 30 15:24:58 magduv i'm magduv from ru-imc.
Sep 30 15:25:44 Gb i'm Gb from it-imc
Sep 30 15:25:52 * zak is from imc uk, and one of the admins for traven (mir hosting server)
Sep 30 15:26:11 shensche i have a Python-script lying around that converts the articles and users from Dada .98.2 to Drupal 4.7.2, if anybody is interested. does not work with Dada .99.3 (yet)
Sep 30 15:26:12 * gdm uk and global
Sep 30 15:26:18 * gdm mainly just lurking
Sep 30 15:27:10 ryan ok is someone moderating?
Sep 30 15:27:12 ryan introduction time is over
Sep 30 15:27:22 kwadronaut *little remark* anyone logging this meeting and eventually making a summary?
Sep 30 15:27:31 toya i am
Sep 30 15:27:34 toya loggin
Sep 30 15:27:37 toya not the summary
Sep 30 15:27:39 toya :)
Sep 30 15:27:39 * boud notes that "global" is really only "semiglobal" http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-communication/2006-September/0927-vo.html
Sep 30 15:27:54 toya boud: that is still on discussion
Sep 30 15:27:56 toya ;)
Sep 30 15:28:00 * matthias imc-sweden, mostly here to listen
Sep 30 15:28:02 ryan ok i'm going to moderate
Sep 30 15:28:11 ryan now
Sep 30 15:28:16 * guido from santiago imc, im here to listen
Sep 30 15:28:24 ryan who has something they want to update the group on for agenda item #2, which is updates from the last week?
Sep 30 15:28:34 ryan the list so far is: toya, ryan
Sep 30 15:28:39 ryan anyone else have something to add?
Sep 30 15:28:44 ryan just say "yes"
Sep 30 15:28:45 kwadronaut kwadronaut:
Sep 30 15:29:01 * ekes here while I can be -- imc-uk (mir), imc-york (drupal)
Sep 30 15:29:46 ryan ok, so 2 updates from the last week
Sep 30 15:29:51 ryan toya, want to talk about it?
Sep 30 15:30:29 toya ok
Sep 30 15:32:04 toya in brasil 3 kids started this cms from zero is with php and perl it includes some other features that envolves jabber to give more features for the users the whole goal of this project is to have virtual communities builded with those features on a cms that inst centralized..which can be moved around easily
Sep 30 15:32:15 toya they are working on a presentation about it
Sep 30 15:32:29 toya now that they feel they are on a step where more ppl can jump in and help
Sep 30 15:32:30 * mish is from imc uk - mostly lurking so far but very interested
Sep 30 15:32:43 toya this can be prepare by the end of octuber thought
Sep 30 15:33:05 toya but i can bring them to the next meeting to present it at least here on irc
Sep 30 15:33:20 toya if ppl think it would be a good idea
Sep 30 15:33:22 toya end
Sep 30 15:34:29 jebba i'm very happy to hear about brasil/jabber because i think that's going to play quite a nice roll and ties into VoIP/jingle (ala googletalk). Just FYI <end>
Sep 30 15:35:11 magduv toya: for presentation better to make simple web page.. not irc
Sep 30 15:35:19 ryan alright cool, so maybe next time brazil kids will come with the cms info
Sep 30 15:35:36 toya magduv: ok
Sep 30 15:35:38 toya ryan: ok
Sep 30 15:36:01 ryan ok, next update is me -- only to say that in san francisco we have a dev server we are putting zope/plone/etc on
Sep 30 15:36:07 ryan then people can play with the installation/demo/whatever
Sep 30 15:36:35 ryan it could be used for other installations but for at least the next 10 days or so, we want it to be only zope
Sep 30 15:36:49 shensche perhaps they can try to integrate into the structure on http://techmeet.sarava.org/English/CMSSurveyList?
Sep 30 15:37:03 ryan should be on there..
Sep 30 15:37:05 ryan actually
Sep 30 15:37:07 shensche oops.. @toya :)
Sep 30 15:37:08 * boud agrees with shensche - it would help
Sep 30 15:37:20 toya shensche: i will pass the link to them ;)
Sep 30 15:37:59 ryan the only other update from me is that my deadline for finishing sf-imc changes to sf-active (adding captcha and moving sf-imc into sf-active)
Sep 30 15:38:04 * toya also says that they heard bout indymedia idea of working on a cms and that is why they asked me to put this up on this meeting ;)
Sep 30 15:38:05 ryan is october 11th midnight :)
Sep 30 15:38:08 ryan soooo
Sep 30 15:38:21 ryan it wont be until after this that the sf-active cms report is done
Sep 30 15:38:29 ryan thats my update
Sep 30 15:38:38 ryan does anyone else have an update?
Sep 30 15:38:45 Zapata so
Sep 30 15:38:52 Zapata I've been doing slave labor for the past 2 weeks
Sep 30 15:38:59 Zapata and not been able to work on this project
Sep 30 15:39:08 Zapata I intend to get back into it coming weeks
Sep 30 15:39:09 Zapata <end>
Sep 30 15:39:27 ryan kwadro?
Sep 30 15:39:43 kwadronaut spip evalutation has been going on a little, but because we're two doing this, but not collaboratively, i see that it's extremely subjective, and i'd like to ask people to be specific in their reports
Sep 30 15:39:49 kwadronaut giving examples etc.
Sep 30 15:40:01 kwadronaut not "this will be in the next release comments"
Sep 30 15:40:11 kwadronaut i think that's easier to compare afterwards
Sep 30 15:40:13 kwadronaut <end>
Sep 30 15:40:16 * Zapata agrees wholeheartedly
Sep 30 15:40:40 ryan wait, what?
Sep 30 15:40:44 ryan this will be in the next release comments?
Sep 30 15:40:47 ryan - i dont understand that part
Sep 30 15:41:08 kwadronaut instead of saying this feature doesnt exist
Sep 30 15:41:21 kwadronaut saying but this will be soon implemented
Sep 30 15:41:37 ryan oh i see
Sep 30 15:41:41 kwadronaut because you could fill the whole report with that sort of comments
Sep 30 15:41:48 kwadronaut understandable now?
Sep 30 15:41:50 ryan on the spip evaluation, libertinus == libertino ?
Sep 30 15:41:54 ryan from uruguay?
Sep 30 15:42:10 kwadronaut i think so yes
Sep 30 15:42:16 ryan ok well
Sep 30 15:42:18 ryan any other updates?
Sep 30 15:43:53 ryan ok so next item is stuff to plan for next week
Sep 30 15:44:03 ryan first -- can someone who admins imc-cms list check to see if there are pending requests?
Sep 30 15:44:08 ryan i still havent gotten a mail from this....
Sep 30 15:44:14 * Zapata will
Sep 30 15:44:19 * Zapata will right now
Sep 30 15:44:26 * ekes has been admin it
Sep 30 15:44:34 ekes mails waiting have been through
Sep 30 15:44:39 Zapata ah, cool
Sep 30 15:44:58 ryan ok, i would add an item here -- which is should we set a deadline for adding new CMS'es to evaluate?
Sep 30 15:45:03 ryan or a deadline for CMS'es to be evaluated?
Sep 30 15:45:11 ryan and if someone hasnt evaluated a CMS by that time, we find someone else to do it?
Sep 30 15:45:22 ryan maybe this isnt the right meeting to have this discussion
Sep 30 15:45:31 ryan but, at some point, we have to come up with a timeline or things will drag on forever
Sep 30 15:45:39 ryan what do yall think of this?
Sep 30 15:45:39 ryan end
Sep 30 15:45:43 magduv does anybody thought on following? new cms could become just another cms techies have to maintain because nobody would force migration from present cmss.. so we could get one more problem instead of relief
Sep 30 15:45:46 * Zapata raises
Sep 30 15:45:56 ryan zapata, go
Sep 30 15:46:36 Zapata I think we should set an informal deadline for reports...
Sep 30 15:47:00 ryan ekes -- can you check it again? i subscribed again just now
Sep 30 15:47:14 Zapata like after n weeks there should be some sort of social control process
Sep 30 15:47:25 Zapata need any help, should someone else take over
Sep 30 15:47:31 Zapata that's what I would propose
Sep 30 15:47:32 Zapata <end>
Sep 30 15:48:07 toya i think we should also think of migration like if we pick a cms that will be a pain in the ass to migrate the existing ones to it?
Sep 30 15:48:23 * Zapata raises in response to toya
Sep 30 15:48:25 toya maybe should be a topic on the evaluation
Sep 30 15:48:28 toya or something
Sep 30 15:48:31 toya end
Sep 30 15:48:33 ryan zap
Sep 30 15:48:48 Zapata I would suggest we do that in a second round with a short list of cmses
Sep 30 15:49:06 Zapata if we find a great cms with a hard migration process... it may still be worth the effort...
Sep 30 15:49:28 Zapata also making a good estimate on how difficult a migration will be is rather time consuming...
Sep 30 15:49:30 toya ;)
Sep 30 15:49:37 Zapata and shouldn't happen imo with all cmses we consider now...
Sep 30 15:49:38 Zapata <end>
Sep 30 15:49:53 ryan dannyp, ryan
Sep 30 15:49:59 dannyp in response to magduv, if the new CMS is more easily installed and maintained, then it will be easier to find groups willing to host it and harder to find groups willing to host codebases that are a strain on resources (e.g. dadaIMC)
Sep 30 15:50:04 dannyp end
Sep 30 15:50:29 ryan ok so i agree that we should prod stagnant evaluations as zapata suggests
Sep 30 15:50:36 magduv the problem is that ther still be probably many collectives using existing cmss which would need help in maintaining
Sep 30 15:50:38 ryan but overall it would be nice to have a timeline that says something
Sep 30 15:50:47 ryan by the end of Q4 2006 we will have a short list of CMS'es
Sep 30 15:50:55 ryan and schedule things to meet this deadline
Sep 30 15:51:14 ryan anyway, i will be pressing to do this through the first couple weeks of october :)
Sep 30 15:51:23 ryan end, anyone else?
Sep 30 15:51:29 ryan on this topic or any new topic for the next week?
Sep 30 15:51:44 * boud raises
Sep 30 15:51:56 ryan go ahead
Sep 30 15:51:56 * kwadronaut does the funny handsign to agree with Zapata on deadlines
Sep 30 15:52:22 toya hehe
Sep 30 15:52:48 boud i think there's something major we forgot about as a set of criteria for evaluating cmses
Sep 30 15:53:08 boud angdraug briefly stated it here: http://sindominio.net/~txopi/20060910-irc-log-cms.log we need to add open-minded developer community to the list of requirements
Sep 30 15:53:18 magduv dannyp: you look at the hosting i look at the collective.. ru-imc once migrated from Active to Dada couple years ago and we are still not in good form
Sep 30 15:53:53 magduv and we would think twice before next migration.. and probably other collectives who experienced migration too
Sep 30 15:54:00 * kwadronaut raises in response to boud
Sep 30 15:54:13 boud i think of this criterion as maybe something like "social criteria of the development communities of the software package and the underlying language/packages [java/zope/ruby]"
Sep 30 15:55:06 * dannyp raises in response to magduv
Sep 30 15:55:08 boud and possible long term dependencies, getting too close to the US army, and so on (i know GPL is free), but i think we need to at least list these criteria and have them available for decision-making
Sep 30 15:55:13 boud </end>
Sep 30 15:55:53 kwadronaut boud: i think that if there are valuable/necessary remarks to be made about the devolpment community of this or that cms, it can be added to the box about "healty community"
Sep 30 15:56:00 kwadronaut healthy means different things.
Sep 30 15:56:04 kwadronaut so i think its already in
Sep 30 15:56:04 * boud s/i know GPL is free/i know GPL is free, but nevertheless getting close to the US army is worrying/
Sep 30 15:56:25 ryan oh sorry
Sep 30 15:56:40 * Zapata reraises in response to boud/kwadro
Sep 30 15:56:41 ryan i stopped listening at "open-minded"
Sep 30 15:56:42 ryan :)
Sep 30 15:56:45 ryan ok ok
Sep 30 15:56:59 ryan is there a stack?
Sep 30 15:57:06 ryan zapata, just go
Sep 30 15:57:09 Zapata you tell us, mr. facilitator
Sep 30 15:57:11 kwadronaut dannyp: still had
Sep 30 15:57:12 Zapata ok
Sep 30 15:57:32 kwadronaut first dannyp than Zapata iirc
Sep 30 15:57:42 Zapata my point would be that "social criteria of a development community" is even more subjective than the other features
Sep 30 15:57:55 Zapata so I would suggest we do not spend too much time in this phase on this
Sep 30 15:58:01 Zapata but leave it to the short listed cmses
Sep 30 15:58:07 Zapata <end>
